Handling and Adjucating on the fly

[billd91]

I think the most important rules have been in the 3e DMG all along. Page 34 of the 3.5 DMG suggests between 10 and 20 for DCs, default to 15. And The DM's Best Friend (+ or - 2) on page 30.

If the players do something surprising and cool, give them the +2 (or multiple thereof). If they're pursuing a bad idea, apply the -2 (or multiple thereof). If the task, to a normal NPC, is average to relatively easy DC 10, very easy DC 5, average relatively difficult DC 15, difficult DC 20.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Cinematic color to combat is a very important part of good roleplaying. When players interact with the environment creatively and are sufficiently immersed that they can imagine the environment, that's a good thing.

There are some potential drawbacks:

a) If the stunts become routine, they stop adding a lot of value. You want to avoid having a situation where the player does the same thing over and over again.
b) If the stunts become too zany, they can detract from the atmosphere of the game as much as they add to it. If you aren't going for slap stick comedy, there is a level of 'over the top' that is too far over the top.
c) The player can become stuck either with the impression that no stunt is ever worth it because the DM/system crushes creativity, or else they are always worth it because no matter how hare brained the idea the DM will reward it.



Yeah, I've had those players before.

As a DM, I have a standard bag of tricks for adjudicating things.

The simplest way to ad hoc rule is simply along the lines of, "OK, if you can make a DC X appropriate skill check, you get a +n circumstance bonus to your attack/damage/AC."

The next thing is to translate an creative action into a defined combat maneuver or stance, or in some cases a series of them. For example, is the character effectively fighting defensively in describing the action? I might decide that 'Duck inside a barrel' or 'Slam door on foe', constitutes 'Fighting defensively + a skill check for a small circumstance bonus'. Kicking a chair into a foe might be treated as a 'Trip Attack' with an improvised range weapon - not likely to work maybe, but also you aren't drawing an AoO.

To provide for that, I have a variety of actions I've defined in the rules that are pretty common PC narration. One of them is the opposite of 'Fighting Defensively', 'Fighting offensively', which is typically used whenever the players describe themselves acting in a particularly rash manner. It might be a quite successful attack, but it leaves them wide open to a counter attack or attack of opportunity. So, leaping down off a balcony and trying to drive your sword into an opponent might be resolved as "Charge + Fighting Offensively + a +1 circumstance bonus to attack from attacking from above + Jump check vs DC 10 to gain +1 circumstance bonus to damage." Putting that all together quickly produces a simple set of modifiers to the attack roll along with some fun color without being unbalancing. Leap down far enough, and I might add damage from impact to both the target and jumper, but I'd probably also increase the DC.

One thing you mention that I found occurred a lot was players wanting to climb or mount a large creature and stab it in the back/head/neck. The rules want to treat this as a grapple, but it doesn't really work either mechanically or by intention. A player doing that isn't trying to control the enemies limbs and pin them motionless; he's trying to get inside the enemies guard and attack them in a way that they are relatively defenseless. A mosquito that lands on you isn't 'grappling' you. Something else is going on entirely. This has been generalized to a maneuver called 'Clinch' which is the counterpart of a grapple. In a clinch, the smaller creature is favored over the larger one, though of course, the smaller creature is in danger if the larger one can convert the clinch to a grapple, and the larger creature can perform a thrashing action to crush the pest, and there are several other hazards as well. However, it provides a standardized way to handle something that is a staple of fantasy and player's stunts.

Just off the top of my head, recently in my campaign I've had characters: bull rush zombies off pits, lasso skeletons and drag them into pits, leap on to and over tables to attack, jump down off of roofs to deliver flying charge attacks, burst through roofs by casting enlarge self, somersault between an enemies legs to attack from the rear, shield rush ghouls to prevent them from performing coup de grace attacks, shield fallen friends with their own bodies, lock blades with an undead warrior in order to spin it around and shove it between other party members, and a bunch of other stuff. It's all a blur really for me at this point. I distinctly remember a player pulling of a three skill trick combo, where another player said, "If this works, it's going to be awesome.", and I remember it worked, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. And the Sidhe rogue has gotten to the point where he can pretty much bounce around spinning like Yoga in the prequels during combat, and pull off pretty much anything he can imagine. But that's not even really creative at this point, it's just the rules.

This is a good analysis.

It's a fine balance, between zany and too stringent, yep.

I was reading an old Dungeoncraft the other day, I think the first one that considered itself 3rd edition. It was interesting to note that a lot of this stuff that we are talking about was often addressed in 2nd edition with an arbitrarily-ruled percentile chance, with the standard, wherever there was any doubt, being 50% success. Interestingly, this is kind of liberating knowing this, because its the early assumption the game worked on for resolution, and the system worked completely fine. The game had become more complex, but maybe more intuitive with the 3rd edition, given that every action was simply modelled instead by an appropriate skill or ability check. Standard difficulty classes were given, and a DM's best friend (+2/-2) was recommended.

With this rule alone, its hard to go wrong;- but complicating the rules is the suite of special attacks, actions and specific consequences, often very specific as written, but with broad scope shown in the ways that the game designers employed them. Add to this a plethora of exceptions and conditions and it can be very daunting if you feel that you want to play game absolutely RAW. Modelling swashbuckling action becomes not such a clear cut prescription after-all.

Knowing this helps; You can cultivate an encyclopaedic knowledge of the rules (I reckon a few enworlders have this level of knowledge, and I'm impressed , and then judiciously apply them, and even then you will have to make judgement calls; stick to the basics (ability check vs. DC, and +2 or -2 is all you need to know), or houserule for better modelling e.g. [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION]'s clinch, which is, I guess simply making a judgement call and enshrining it for posterity.

Then guaging the DC of any task is the only thing left. This can be modelled as realistically with suggested DCs as guides, or used as a sliding "manga-action" scale to encourage this certain style. I think both can work, though consistency is probably the most important element for both because it supports an internal consistency.

I'll by DMing soon, I think, and I'll probably be leaning more toward the former end of the spectrum because consistency and elements of risk are important. Communication, too; In this case, I think its a good idea to speak in terms of DC to the players so that they can understand the elements of the decisions and have their characters make informed decisions about their actions.

Anyway, just bouncing some thoughts. Cheers!

 

[Dwimmerlied]

I think the most important rules have been in the 3e DMG all along. Page 34 of the 3.5 DMG suggests between 10 and 20 for DCs, default to 15. And The DM's Best Friend (+ or - 2) on page 30.

If the players do something surprising and cool, give them the +2 (or multiple thereof). If they're pursuing a bad idea, apply the -2 (or multiple thereof). If the task, to a normal NPC, is average to relatively easy DC 10, very easy DC 5, average relatively difficult DC 15, difficult DC 20.

Absolutely, and I think it may be the only rule that you really need; with the exception of some guidelines Monte Cook? wrote in a Dungeon article some years ago (Winging It?), allowing you to easily eyeball easy, moderate and difficult DCs by level.

 

[Celebrim]

Clinch Manuever

CLINCH
Clinching is special manuever which brings you inside the guard of larger creature or opponent using a larger weapon. From there, you try to shelter from your opponent’s attacks using your opponent’s greater reach against them and even treating your foes own body as cover. You can also attempt to attack your foe at such close range that they are unable to defend themselves.

In order to clinch, the opponent must be either of a larger size class than you, or wielding at least one weapon which is a larger size class than at least one of your weapons. You can't clinch against an opponent more than one size class smaller than you under any circumstances. You can’t clinch a creature with no meaningful anatomy – such as an ooze or swarm. To clinch, you must draw an Attack of Oppurtunity and then make a successful opposed clinch check.

Clinch Checks
Repeatedly in a clinch, you need to make opposed clinch maneuver checks against an opponent. Your bonus on a clinch manuever check is: Base attack bonus + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier
Special Size Modifier: The special size modifier for a clinch check is as follows: Colossal -16, Gargantuan -12, Huge -8, Large -4, Medium +0, Small +4, Tiny +8, Diminutive +12, Fine +16. Use this number in place of the normal size modifier you use when making an attack roll. This size modifier is opposite that of the grappling modifier.
Clinch Checks and Skill Usage: If you are trained in balance, you can substitute your balance check for your BAB in a clinch check. If you are at least two size classes smaller than your foe and you are trained in climb or have a racial climb speed, you can use your climb check instead. Other skills may be used at the DM's discrestion if the circumstances warrant it, such as swim when fighting in water or ride when clinching a creature which can normally be mounted.

Effects of a Clinch: When you clinch, your opponent can move, but they must succeed in an opposed clinch maneuver check to avoid bringing you along with them (breaking the clinch). Further more, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to your AC with respect to their attacks and a +2 circumstance bonus to hit. If you are smaller than your opponent, you get an additional +2 dodge bonus per difference in size classes. Note that unlike grappling, clinching an opponent in and of itself imposes no condition on them. They can still act normally. Likewise, while clinched with your opponent you can attack normally.

The downside of a clinch is you give up your attack of opportunity if your opponent attempts to grapple you, which in many cases they will very likely want to do if they can. Once you are grappled, the clinch is broken.

On later turns, provided your opponent has not found a way to break the clinch, as a move equivalent action you may make an opposed clinch check and if successful, your opponent is considered flatfooted with respect to your attacks that round. Conceptually, you get so close to a vital region that your opponent is unable to defend it.

Breaking the Clinch: If you initiated the Clinch, you may break the clinch…
Voluntarily: At any time during your turn or at any time when the target of your clinch moves, you may break a clinch you initiated.
Moving Away: If you move so that you are no longer adjacent to the target of your clinch, the clinch is automatically broken.

If you are the target of a Clinch, you may break the clinch…
By Moving Away: If you move away from a creature that is clinching you, it has the option of voluntararily releasing the clinch or moving with you. If it wishes to continue the clinch by moving with you, it must win an opposed clinch check. If you have a faster speed than clinching creature, you gain a +4 bonus when attempting to break a clinch in this manner. If you are also using a movement mode that the clinching creature does not naturally have, you gain an additional +4 bonus (for a total of +8).
By Deliberate Effort: At the beginning of your turn, you can attempt to break the clinch of any one opponent currently clinching you. This does not require an action. If you beat the opponent in an opposed clinch check, you have broken the clinch.
By Grappling: If you succeed in a grappling attack versus a creature that has clinched you, you break the clinch.
By Trashing: As a full round action, you flail wildly in an attempt to dislodge your attackers. Each clinching opponent must make a DC 15 Reflex save. If they fail, they take damage as from one of your unarmed attacks, and the clinch is broken. Creatures with a natural trample or crush attack form may subsitute the damage of their trample or crush attack for their unarmed attack.

Breaking the Clinch and the Environment: If you have clinched an airborne flying creature, when the clinch is broken you must either fly or you are falling. If you have clinched a creature that is swimming, when the clinch is broken you must either swim or sink.

Clinch and Two-Weapon Fighting: When a character is armed with two weapons of different sizes, it presents additional complexities. You may still clinch if the foe is wielding at least one weapon which is a larger size class than at least one of your weapons, but clinching in this case is not completely effective. If you successfully clinch, you may not attack with a weapon which is larger than the largest weapon your opponent is wielding. The bonus to attack you receive from clinching only applies to weapons you have that are smaller than the smallest weapon your opponent is wielding. Finally, the bonus to AC you receive from clinching only applies to attacks by the opponent from weapons larger than the smallest weapon you are wielding. Your opponent may still attack without penalty with any weapon of the same size or smaller than your smallest weapon.

Mutually Clinched: It is possible for two creatures using a two-weapon fighting stance to clinch each other. When this occurs, neither may voluntarily break the clinch unless both voluntarily break the clinch.


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