D&D 5E (2014) Handling Initiative

[CM]

Magnetic whiteboard, magnetic circles and strips with letters for NPCs (which correspond to the marker next to their miniature on the tabletop) and magnetic strips with the character names. It's been working for 10 years or so.

Also you can write on it for oddball stuff.

 

[Sacrosanct]

OK, I guess I can see the need for something like a whiteboard for those that like tightly structured rules for things like effects and whatnot. Not my personal cup of tea, but now I think I understand why.

Thanks!

 

[Agamon]

OK, I guess I can see the need for something like a whiteboard for those that like tightly structured rules for things like effects and whatnot. Not my personal cup of tea, but now I think I understand why.

In my case, it's less about tightly structured rules (that's kinda the opposite of my style), but more about efficiency and reducing confusion. Quick-paced battles are the kind I prefer.

 

[MarkB]

Even in finely-tuned-action-economy 4e, I and other DMs I know sometimes let players juggle order a bit. One such variant is to let PCs who roll the same initiative decide, round by round, which one goes first.

That's something that any two PCs on adjacent turns can do anyway, simply by the first one holding his action for the second one.

 

[Lanefan]

That's something that any two PCs on adjacent turns can do anyway, simply by the first one holding his action for the second one.

But what they can't do by RAW, much to my extreme annoyance, is act AT THE SAME TIME.

By strict RAW, during combat two characters cannot move together (example: one is carrying a silence device to cover the sound made by both as they move; or both are under an Invisibility Cloak).

We re-roll every round on a d6, with simultaneous actions assumed as part of the game.

Lanefan

 

[Viking Bastard]

As noted above - it would mean that sometimes folks could get a reaction that they'd not get if you were running it RAW.

It would mean that some spells could be made to persist just a touch longer than they would otherwise - a cleric could then choose to concentrate on the Bless spell until the end of the round before replacing it with another concentration-spell, for example.

I missed your previous post, but that's basically the same as 4e--the mechanics are a little different, but the overall effect looks the same.

Less worried about readying actions, as my players very, very rarely do.

I think the effect in 5e could be a bit profound. DPR:hp ratio is larger (or so it seems, especially as levels go up) in 5e. A hard encounter against a large number of monsters gets much harder if all the monsters get to go before any PC can act and much easier if all the PCs get to go before any monster can do anything.

I don't think it's game breaking by any means (even with individual init, it is still fairly common for one side to go entirely then the other)...it just means that playing smart, gaining/avoiding surprise and being in a good defensive position at the start of combat are all more important.

This is a tad more worrying, if it's correct that 5e characters are more fragile.

 

[ProphetSword]

After rolling for initiative, my players actually write down the order they go on the battle mat (which is one of the easily erasable ones that Paizo puts out) in front of them. They also write down their AC, HP and anything else they want to track (whether a concentration spell is in play, how many ki points they have, etc). They can usually write these things in a small enough area that it doesn't interfere with the game area at all, and I can clearly see information on the fly. Also, being able to erase your HP and track them on a dry-erase mat saves a lot of paper. This picture shows a little of what I'm talking about (though the picture was actually focusing on the fact that someone had just rolled a 1 and a 20 while having Advantage). You can see a bit of the writing in the corner.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

But what they can't do by RAW, much to my extreme annoyance, is act AT THE SAME TIME.

By strict RAW, during combat two characters cannot move together (example: one is carrying a silence device to cover the sound made by both as they move; or both are under an Invisibility Cloak).
Lanefan

I ran into that issue last night. In the midst of a battle, I had a Nalfeshnee and a Glabrezu working together to pick up a stone altar that would have been difficult for either alone, and then they were going to carry it out the area of the silence spells that the PCs had been spamming to prevent them from completing a summoning ritual to open a gate to the Abyss.

I had one monster ready his action to help the other pick it up (though I suppose he wouldn't have had to ready, since RAW would allow him to help his ally with a check). Once they were carrying it between the two of them, I was going to let one creature ready his action to dash with the other character, and/or maybe even let him use his movement with it.

Technically, they couldn't even do the simultaneous dashing, but I felt that being able to carry an item together was a common sense enough capability to make a ruling allowing it.

<End Point, Enter Story>

It never came up, because the Nalfeshnee's hit points got dangerously low and they had to change tactics slightly. The silenced Glabrezu mouthed his intention to the Nalfeshnee (both of them having Intelligence 19, I figured conveying simple information that way was justified) took his action to shift his part of the weight to the Nalfeshnee (I ruled that no check was called for, since the Nalfeshnee was probably strong enough to stand there holding it by himself), and used his move to start moving away. The Nalfeshnee then used his innate ability to teleport himself and any object he was carrying a few hundred feet away.

There also happened to be a wood elf ranger PC standing on the stone altar he was carrying, slaughting him with a short sword and a dagger--but his teleport ability only took objects not other creature with him, leaving the PC behind.

With some intelligent decision making on the part of the demons, the Glabrezu did manage to make it to the altar in time for them the finish the ritual that required both of them and open the gate. It was a close battle and a good time was had by all. Since there won't be any follow up to those characters, I explained what would now be happening regarding the gate if the game had continued and it was up to the players' imagination what they would have done and how things would have played out. (Most likely they would have successfully retreated at some point, leaving the demonic horde to ravage the countryside, since the conditions for closing the gate before it had spewed out the marilith and balor and the inevitable TPK were probably impossible to meet given the action economy (too many scattered manes to kill in time.))

I would have ruled things pretty much exactly the same had the characters been trying to carry something, and it really felt pretty smooth. Given this is the first time I found myself needing to make those sorts of ruling in 5e, that is very promising for the ease and smoothness of spur of the moment rulings when I get some more 5e experience.

 

[Lanefan]

I ran into that issue last night. In the midst of a battle, I had a Nalfeshnee and a Glabrezu working together to pick up a stone altar that would have been difficult for either alone, and then they were going to carry it out the area of the silence spells that the PCs had been spamming to prevent them from completing a summoning ritual to open a gate to the Abyss.

I had one monster ready his action to help the other pick it up (though I suppose he wouldn't have had to ready, since RAW would allow him to help his ally with a check). Once they were carrying it between the two of them, I was going to let one creature ready his action to dash with the other character, and/or maybe even let him use his movement with it.

Technically, they couldn't even do the simultaneous dashing, but I felt that being able to carry an item together was a common sense enough capability to make a ruling allowing it.

And, obviously, the correct ruling.

My point is that you had to make a ruling at all, as the written rules really ought to allow for this and other simultaneous actions to occur.

Something else RAW does not allow is the "Moby Dick" scenario, where two combatants simultaneously take each other down and die together. Again, this can be overcome by using a different init. system, but really...sigh.

Lan-"and don't even get me started on strict cyclic initiative"-efan

 

[thewok]

I like the way FFG did initiative in their Star Wars RPGs.

Everyone rolls for initiative, but that initiative order is then assigned only to sides, rather than specific entities. So, while in D&D (and most RPGs), your initiative list looks like this:

23: Rogue
21: Ranger
19: Orc Archer 1
17: Orc Archer 2
15: Fighter
15: Wizard
14: Orc Shaman
10: Orc Grunt 1
8: Orc Grunt 2
7: Orc Grunt 3
5: Orc Archer 3
3: Cleric

In SWFFG, you'd have this:

PC
PC
NPC
NPC
PC
PC
NPC
NPC
NPC
NPC
NPC
PC

Then, the party could decide who goes when whenever their turn comes up, and they can even change the order between rounds--no need to determine a set order at any time. I'm not sure how well it would work with D&D, but it's an option some could try. It does minimize the personal utility of Dexterity for some characters, turning initiative into a group resource and possibly changing the impact of Surprise for low-initiative characters.