Hardness/HP Conflict Query

[Archade]

So, do we have any confirmation on whether a +1 enhancement adds +1 to hardness and hp to a weapon, or if it's +2 and +10? Also, have they cleared up if you need a magical item to damage a magical item?

Thanks!

 

[drnuncheon]

I believe that the +1/+1 is left over from the previous edition, and that +2/+10 is the correct - IIRC, they mentioned specifically that they were toughening up magic weapons, and it wouldn't make any sense to say that and then still use +1/+1.

 

[Planesdragon]

Here ya go; let me know if the erratta says something different.

Hardness and Hit Points: An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck. Each +1 of enhancement bonus also adds 1 to the weapon’s or shield’s hardness and hit points.

Shield Hardness and Hit Points: Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points.

 

[The Souljourner]

Planesdragon - that's no help at all. You've just posted the two conflicting parts of the SRD that the original question was asking about.

I believe the first part posted is a holdover from 3.0, and was intended to be changed to the form the second part takes - i.e. each +1 enhancement bonus adds 2 to hardness and 10 hitpoints. However, that is just my belief.

-The Souljourner

 

[Planesdragon]

Planesdragon - that's no help at all. You've just posted the two conflicting parts of the SRD that the original question was asking about.

Nope. They're two different parts for two different items.

Magical weapons have +1 hardness and +1 hp per enhancement bonus, and cannot be damaged by a weapon of lesser enhancement.

Magical shields have +2 hardness and +10 hp per point of enhancement, but can be damaged by anything.


Other items have their own, specific rules. Look in the descrition of the item catagory and the item description; if there is no mention of hardess or hp, the item works just like a nonmagical item of the same type.

 

[kreynolds]

Nope. They're two different parts for two different items.

Then this should totally stump you...

DMG, page 222, Hardness and Hit Points
"Each +1 of enhancement bonus also adds 1 to the weapon's or shield's hardness and hit points."

DMG, page 217, Hardness and Hit Points
"Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a shield's hardness and +10 to its hit points."

 

[Plane Sailing]

Nope. They're two different parts for two different items.
.

However, your first quote includes "also adds 1 to the weapon’s or shield’s hardness and hit points."

i.e. in the case of shields the two portions of the SRD you quoted don't match up, which is what begs the wider question.

Cheers

 

[Artoomis]

Nope. They're two different parts for two different items.

Magical weapons have +1 hardness and +1 hp per enhancement bonus, and cannot be damaged by a weapon of lesser enhancement.

Magical shields have +2 hardness and +10 hp per point of enhancement, but can be damaged by anything.


Other items have their own, specific rules. Look in the descrition of the item catagory and the item description; if there is no mention of hardess or hp, the item works just like a nonmagical item of the same type.

Incorrect on shields being able to be attacked by anything:

...unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the weapon or shield struck....

The rules are a bit messed up still and need errata. I wonder what they actually meant to do for 3.5? It's simply not clear enough to make any real conclusive determination.

That said, it is at least obvious that

"Shield Hardness and Hit Points: Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points"

was meant to replace

"Each +1 of enhancement bonus also adds 1 to the weapon’s or shield’s hardness and hit points,"

at far as shields are concerned as the latter is the same rule as 3.0, while the former is new language for 3.5. The remaining questions, then are:

Do weapons get +2/+10 as shields do?
Are shields still immune to attacks from weapons with lower enhancements bonuses?
If shields are treated differently from weapons, are they also treated differently when they are used as weapons?

 

[Planesdragon]

However, your first quote includes "also adds 1 to the weapon’s or shield’s hardness and hit points."

Heydey hey, we found a typo / bad formatting.

The first quote is from the SRD's section on Magical Weapons. It's obvious that it only applies to "attack bonus" enhancements--which, annoyingly enough, can be applied to shields.

Hmm... so, if I enchanted a sword so it gave me an AC bonus, it might get +2 hardness and +10 hp...

 

[youspoonybard]

Light and Heavy Shields ARE weapons, after all...