Hardness of Dwarven Plate Mail VS Rend Armor

[themightygeckoe]

We fought a bebelith last night with it's rend armor attack. The fighter had +2 dwarven plate mail and in two successive Rend Armor attacks had his armor destroyed much to the consternation of the players. We argued that his armor should have a hardness of 20 and 40 hp. (Didn't see the additional plusses for the +2 so I guess it should have been 24/44). The DM ruled that the armor only gets half the hardness and hit points because the book says per inch of thickeness and not for armor.
I argue that the numbers given in the PHB, pg. 166 are the standard for armor and that he should have gotten the full 24 hardness and 44 HP for his Dwarven Plate Mail.

AND didn't get a saving throw for it being magical.

Can someone please clarify this

 

[sukael]

No save, as the attack doesn't say it gets one.

Is it made of adamantine? You didn't say, but I'm assuming that's where you got the hardness 20 from. If so, as per the table at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingAndEntering - the armor should have had hardness 20 and AC bonus x 5 hit points (full plate, so 40).

If it was made of steel, that would be hardness 10 rather than 20.

The 'per inch of thickness' table doesn't apply to HP, since there's a separate one for that. Then you add in the magic bonuses--which would increase hardness by 4 and hit points by 20, I believe. (Anybody have a specific page reference on this one?)

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I thought all magic iteams gets saves, regardless. perhaps that was just with spells.

 

[sukael]

I thought all magic iteams gets saves, regardless. perhaps that was just with spells.

Magic items get saves, sure--if the effect that's targeting them (and it would have to be targeting them specifically) allows it.

 

[Deset Gled]

I thought all magic iteams gets saves, regardless. perhaps that was just with spells.

The relevant rules text:

Saving Throws: Nonmagical, unattended items never make saving throws. They are considered to have failed their saving throws, so they always are affected by spells. An item attended by a character (being grasped, touched, or worn) makes saving throws as the character (that is, using the character’s saving throw bonus).
Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item’s Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + one-half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.

The interpretation of this sentance can get hairy.

Regardless of that, as noted above the armor should have had 40 HP for being full plate, plus an additional 20 HP for the magic enhancement. The damage that the bebelith rolls is 4d6+18, so the max with two hits is 84 points of damage, and average damage of two hits is 64. Hardness of higher than 12 would guarantee that destruction of the armor is impossible with two hits. Hardess of more than 2 would be sufficient to beat the average.

Not knowing the exact material of the armor, I would guess that your DM either miscalculated (probably halved HP when he shouldn't have), or has the dice of the gods.

 

[themightygeckoe]

thank you..that's what the players were thinking and this is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[GorTeX]

Not knowing the exact material of the armor, I would guess that your DM either miscalculated (probably halved HP when he shouldn't have), or has the dice of the gods.

The fighter had +2 dwarven plate mail

It apparently was dwarven plate, which is made of adamantine..so Hardness 24, HP 60 for the +2 stuff.

so, the Bebilith would on average do 8 points to the armor each time it got to rend..taking about 8 rounds or so to get thru it.

even maxing it out every time would take 4 rounds

 

[boolean]

Actually, the armor has even more HP than that.

Weapons, armor, and shields that are made of adamantine have one-third more hit points than normal.

So:
Full Plate (Armor bonus +8): 40 HP
Adamantine (x1.33): +13 HP
+2: +20 HP
Total HP: 73 HP

Rend Armor does an average of 32 points of damage, minus 24 hardness, leaves 8 points of damage to the armor. It would take 9-10 rends to destroy the armor.

Max damage of 42 each time would do 18 points after hardness. This would take 5 rends to destroy the armor.

 

[GorTeX]

doh!...forgot about the increase in HP from Adamantine...

 

[Legildur]

Full Plate (Armor bonus +8): 40 HP
Adamantine (x1.33): +13 HP
+2: +20 HP
Total HP: 73 HP

Does the one-third more hit points from adamantine apply before or after the additional hit points from the enhancement bonus?

Changing the order (if appropriate) would yield 80hps:

Full Plate: 40hp
+2 enhancement: +20hp
Adamantine (+1/3): +20hp
TOTAL: 80hp