Harm & Regeneration

[Shaga]

If a cleric casts harm on a Troll (or other creature with regeneration) the troll would be with 1d4 hit points.

Is the damage caused by harm to a Troll subdual?
Would the troll regenerate that damage like he regenerates a damage from a normal sword?
Or the damage from harm (that is negative energy) causes to a creature with regeneration normal damage like fire and acid damage????

 

[hammymchamham]

the troll would regenerate because Harm does not deal fire or acid damage.

 

[Destil]

In fact, harm dosn't deal damage at all, it changes the targets' hit points. The spell does not read that the target takes sufficent damage such that the target is left with 1d4 HP. The target is simply reduced to 1d4 HP, end of story. Thus it should affect a troll's HP, not deal subdual damage.

 

[Shaga]

So a disintegrate would not kill the troll because it does not deal fire or acid damage?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I tend to imagine Harm like that as well... but it does specifically say that "Harm damages a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points."

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

"Harm damages a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points."


"Regeneration (Ex): Fire and acid deal normal damage to a troll. If a troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump"


Its not a perminate loss. I've always viewed it as if the subject has taken enough damage to only have 1d4 hit points left. Since negative energy does not deal normal damage to a troll, it would regenerate it.


"So a disintegrate would not kill the troll because it does not deal fire or acid damage?"

If it makes its save, it takes 5d6 (unnamed?) damage, and would regenerate it, but as the spell says:

"A thin, green ray springs from the character's pointing finger, causing the creature or object it strikes to glow and vanish, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. "

For one thing it doesn't deal damage (unless a save is made), the creature is just dead. And as stated in the regeneration section:

"Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage (for example, disintegration and most poisons) ignore regeneration."

 

[Destil]

good call, you're completly right, Hammy. I seam to remember the harm description not including the key word "damages". Shows me to answer without checking my books.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I seam to remember the harm description not including the key word "damages".

I'll have to check the 1E PHB when I get home, because I had the same memory...

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

I'll have to check the 1E PHB when I get home, because I had the same memory...

You probably mean "1st printing PHB" (not AD&D 1st Ed. sources).

But you're right -- my book does instead say: "Harm charges a subject with negative energy that causes the loss of all but 1d4 hit points." So apparently the language has been tweaked.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, I mean First Edition AD&D Player's Handbook... because I figured there had to be a reason I thought Harm simply set your hit points. But it's quite specific in the 1E Heal spell :

"The reverse, Harm, infects the victim with a disease and causes loss of hit points, as damage, sve 1 to 4 (1d4)."

But yeah, I guess it was my first printing 3E PHB that I got the idea from.

-Hyp.