Harniacs vs. d20/D&D players

[Desdichado]

Oh, c'mon! I have no interest in Harn, and even I'm bothered by someone who, when confronted with accusations of generally walking around with a chip on his shoulder and trying to instigate arguments just comes back with "it takes two to tango." Take some responsibility for your own actions, man!

And sadly, I was once a D&D basher of sorts myself. My own experiences with D&D weren't great long ago, I left the fold, avoided 2e completely and wasn't brought back until 3e/d20. Now, of course, I don't really see the need for any other system at all, as d20 gives (or promises, at least, to give) me everything I could want in a game.

But there's a lot of reasons to dislike D&D if you're a big fan of any other RPG. In a lot of ways it has (and still does) ingrained a lot of in-game behavior in gamers that I wish I could do away with, for one thing.

 

[Falstaff]

yes sir

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Harn players are the LINUX users of the RPG world.

*chuckle*

I think it is just the "rebel" attitude that people like to turn against whatever is the majority's interest.

FD

 

[Patrick-S&S]

I have spent some time recently at a webpage forum devoted to the roleplaying game HarnMaster. The people there, once they discovered I also played D&D/d20 roleplaying games, started bashing me.

Yeah that is what happened Falstaff, not that you told people to f-ck off or that they were a-holes, when they didn't agree with you. Folks, you may think what you want of Hârn and HârnMaster, but the way this guy handled himself on the Hârn Forum is not accepted anywhere, there or here. So for those wanting to get into a deep discussion with Falstaff make sure you wear your boxing gloves, because after being insulted for the bazziliont time even you will have had it.

I do not envy you regular posters here on Enworld because in a while you will all come to understand why Falstaff was practically kicked out from the Hârn Forum. Enjoy the flames while they last Falstaff because I am suspecting your stay here will be as brief, if not, then at least as monitored. Morrus and the other admins will get their fists full with you alone. And please do not try to add me to the d20 haters Falstaff, I have been supporting that system for a while now, and is publishing a lot of guides and adds for it.

 

[Psion]

To be honest, most people who play DnD *are* lowest common denominator types, because it's the easiest to get into, and LCD's don't like spending energy to go outside of their comfort zone.

Bunk.

I would say that would be fair to say about SOME D&Ders. But IME, it is not as common as the bashers make it out to be -- especially among adult players. IME, most players get bored of the the hack-n-slash mold, try new games, and often come back to D&D with a different perspective. Most D&D players I have met and played with in 4 different states also play or have played other games.

See, the thing is folks like your easily riled forum-mates over at the harn boards is that more than likely, they were driven away from the game by a bad experience, and this is try for many players who have played D&D but now hate it.

But I think it is fair to say that their are a lot of D&D players who have good DMs and good groups that aren't about hack-n-slash.

I know I may be preaching to the choir, but I also don't like to see my fellow forumites cede points to the bashers that really aren't so.

 

[Falstaff]

yes Mr. Patrick

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Oh, c'mon! I have no interest in Harn

What? No interest in the almighty Harn?
Ban him! BAAAAANNNNN HIM!

LOL. Seriously, you raise a good point in your last paragraph, about D&D ingraining a certain (video game is my term for it) mentality in players that is hard to break when they go to try other systems and settings.

For instance, I just started running a Harn game, and the players bitched about their lack of power, lack of access to what would normally be considered mundane weapons and armor, lack of money, lack of magic, and lack of combat opportunities! But after the initial bitching and confusion, they realized Harn was different and enjoyed themselves immensely, with no more than one combat per three sessions, minimal treasure found amounting to around 500 sp, only a few cantrips cast per session, and constant worry about the effects their actions would have on society or the reaction society would have against them if they were caught!

Harn is undoubtedly the most painstakingly realistic fantasy world ever created and is not for those looking for cheap thrills and high magic (*cough* FR *cough*). It's not for everyone. It requires, nay demands, a higher degree of intelligence and dedication than other settings. I'm not saying this to sound elitist, but because it's true. Harn is as complex and alive as the real world. If you want a gritty, fantasy simulation as close to 12th century earth as possible (but still with a few monsters and magics), Harn is your ticket to ride, baby.

 

[Falstaff]

I agree Kaptain.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Bunk.

I would say that would be fair to say about SOME D&Ders. But IME, it is not as common as the bashers make it out to be -- especially among adult players. IME, most players get bored of the the hack-n-slash mold, try new games, and often come back to D&D with a different perspective. Most D&D players I have met and played with in 4 different states also play or have played other games.

See, the thing is folks like your easily riled forum-mates over at the harn boards is that more than likely, they were driven away from the game by a bad experience, and this is try for many players who have played D&D but now hate it.

But I think it is fair to say that their are a lot of D&D players who have good DMs and good groups that aren't about hack-n-slash.

I know I may be preaching to the choir, but I also don't like to see my fellow forumites cede points to the bashers that really aren't so.

Au contraire, mon frer!

My group has tried to accomodate players over the years but none of them "play right"--meaning they just want to bash stuff and not RP in a realistic and thoughtful fashion in between bashing stuff. And going to the game store the type of person one sees browsing the RPG section in general is a smelly, overweight guy with glasses, scruffy facial hair and no social skills. Other varieties exist, such as the tall, gangly nerd. Invariably, when engaged in conversation, they almost all sound like total weirdos... the kind you want nothing to do with, especially after they don't catch on that you want them to shut up and go away, LOL.

There must be plenty of well-groomed, well-mannered gamers out there somewhere. We just haven't met any locally after 20 years of trying.

 

[tsadkiel]

Harn is as complex and alive as the real world.

No it's not. Not anywhere close. It can't be, since it's a game setting, and doesn't contain all the pesky non-fictional characters that the real world is full of.

(Sorry - while Harn isn't my cup of tea, I don't have anything against it. I just found that statement unbelievably silly.)