HARP vs D&D

[mhensley]

Has anyone here taken a look at the new HARP rpg from ICE yet? From what info I have gathered so far (I haven't seen the rulebook yet), it looks pretty much like D&D (frpg, standard races and classes) with a D100 system. I would love to hear what experiences people have had with it and how it compares to D&D.

 

[diaglo]

it doesn't compare to D&D.

Original D&D(1974) is the only true game. All the other games are just poor imitations of the real thing.

 

[Crothian]

HARP is Rolemaster lite. But I don't think its lite enough for my tastes.

 

[glass]

HARP is Rolemaster lite. But I don't think its lite enough for my tastes.

The guy who wrote it (Tim something?) maintains that is not 'Rolemaster Lite', but actually significantly different.

I don't know how true that is, as I don't have it either, but I thought I'd mention it.


glass.

 

[Nisarg]

The guy who wrote it (Tim something?) maintains that is not 'Rolemaster Lite', but actually significantly different.

I don't know how true that is, as I don't have it either, but I thought I'd mention it.


glass.

Its not true, it IS "rolemaster lite" for all intents and purposes, in a much closer way even than say D&D 3.0 is the same game as D&D 2.0. There are differences, but it really is the same game.

As far as how it compares to D&D; well, if you want a more complicated version of D&D with less network externalities (smaller fan base, way less material, etc) then go ahead and try HARP.

Nisarg

 

[mhensley]

a more complicated version of D&D

In what way is it more complicated than D&D? Just going by the main rulebooks, D&D 3.5 weighs in at 320 pages and that's just the player's handbook. The rulebook for HARP is 2/3 the size at 192 pages.

 

[Numion]

In what way is it more complicated than D&D? Just going by the main rulebooks, D&D 3.5 weighs in at 320 pages and that's just the player's handbook. The rulebook for HARP is 2/3 the size at 192 pages.

I wouldn't say that page count is a good measure of the games complexity. D&D lays it out pretty explicitly, with examples and such. Sometimes very brief systems can be more complex, depending on the mechanics. And page count doesn't say squat about mechanics.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I actually kinda prefer Rolemaster for fantasy gaming, but I figured out how to play it w/o all the rules getting in the way. Character were way more interesting without a level system hampering it like d20, but why am I arguing AGAINST D&D/d20 on a d20/D&D fan site??

 

[Rasyr]

Its not true, it IS "rolemaster lite" for all intents and purposes, in a much closer way even than say D&D 3.0 is the same game as D&D 2.0. There are differences, but it really is the same game.

Nisarg, unless you have actually tried HARP, there is no way you can possibly know that whether or not it is just "rolemaster-lite" or not. That is like saying that D&D is nothing more than "Rolemaster Lite" or "Palladium Lite" (Note: when 3.0 first came out, several distributors WERE referring to it as RM-Lite....).

The only real connection that HARP has to RM is that they use a similar resolution mechanic (note that this is also similar to D&D's resolution mechanic as well - just using a different type of dice).

Spells in HARP are totally level free, and are individual scalable spells where RM has lists of static spells. Combat in HARP is fast (some people have said faster than D&D combat, but personally, I think they are about the same on speed), and only requires a single roll. Yes there are critical tables, but those are only used if you hit the foe hard enough to damage him (no table used to determine this), and HARP combat even has options available to you where you do not have to use any tables at all if you do not want.

Characters in HARP are extremely flexible, more so than in Rolemaster or even D&D (at least D&D 3.0 with its cookie-cutter Monks).

As far as how it compares to D&D; well, if you want a more complicated version of D&D with less network externalities (smaller fan base, way less material, etc) then go ahead and try HARP.

Actually, HARP is less complicated than D&D, and if you had ever looked at it, you would see this.

Network externalities? Egads! Get out from the chapel of Danceyism before it is too late!!

Please note that the HARP fan base is continually growing, and that one advantage of HARP not being d20 is that ICE insures that all of its HARP products are top-notch quality products. Unfortunately, the OGL released upon gaming a lot of crap products, many more than the quality products out there....

Nisarg, you would do yourself more credit if you actually looked at other games before spouting off about how much worse than d20 they are.... Who knows, you might be pleasantly surprised....

 

[Rasyr]

I wouldn't say that page count is a good measure of the games complexity. D&D lays it out pretty explicitly, with examples and such. Sometimes very brief systems can be more complex, depending on the mechanics. And page count doesn't say squat about mechanics.

The HARP mechanics are pretty simple.

Roll + skill + mods >= 100 = success.

HARP has a single, small (takes up about 1/3 of a page) maneuver table which is used for a few skills that can be resolved in ways other than the basic all-or-nothing method.

I have had it pointed out to me that D&D spells are very much like being a rule in and of itself. I do not know how accurate this is, seeing that I have never liked D&D magic, and therefore never played a spell user. On the other hand, I can speak about the HARP spells, they all follow the same basic rules, no matter what the spell is. How well it is cast (i.e. how high you roll) determines how hard the spell is to resist. This also applies to things like diseases, and poisons as well.

The HARP rules are not, at their core, very difficult. HARP does offer a great deal of flexibility, and this has a tendency to make things more complicated. In designing HARP, I tried to strike a balance between flexibility and simplicity, and I think that it has been very nicely achieved.

I also think that HARP is less complex than D&D (note: the type of dice used, and whether or not a person can add smaller numbers better or worse than larger ones has no bearing on the complexity of a game).

I also find it very interesting that it is only those people who do not know Rolemaster and/or HARP who persist in trying to say that HARP is some sort of RM-Lite. I have yet to find somebody who knows both systems to make that claim.