Has anyone created a D20/D&D3e light?

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I kind of do but my players, while the would go back to 1e with me, would rather stay with the system we have been playing the campaign with. I am not having much fun running 3e but I don't want the reverse to happen to my players under 1e. They would have fewer options and possibly wouldn't be having a blast like they are now. They are kind of powergamery and like having tons of "powers" they didn't have before. A lot of it is relative, as everything is beefed up under 3e so the fact that they can do a lot more damage is balanced by a lot of monster having a lot more HP under 3e.

 

[mmadsen]

Some Feats complicate the game. Some don't. As you noted, Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization add static bonuses and don't slow things down. Power Attack and Expertise, with their constantly changing modifiers, do slow things down.

Similarly, some Special Abilities complicate things, while others don't. Rage changes lots of modifiers; Fast Movement doesn't.

And, of course, spells (and magic items) can really complicate things.

Perhaps you should try a game without the "offending" powers -- and perhaps with less magic.

 

[Henry]

THe most important thing is to work this out with your players. Sit down with them, buy a pizza, and brainstorm together. It sounds as if you are already at an impasse that could threaten your enjoyment or that of your players. So, have a detente.

The earlier suggestion about the "3E basics" is a VERY good place to start from. Back in 1999, about august or september, when Dragon Magazine was doing the 3E countdown, there was a list of "10 things you can do to play 3E right now!" This would be a great thing to start with. In fact, if someone has the basics of this article available, and could post it here, I would appreciate it to accentuate my point.


Among the alterations that I can remember were:

1. Use attack bonus instead of THACO.
2. Use AC that goes up.
3. Use spontaneous healing for clerics - change the spell into (spell level)d8's of healing.
4. Use the death at -10 rule instead of 0 = dead.

Start from there, and work with your players to find out how much 1st edition they can stand, and simply 1st edition with what you know about 3rd edition.

OR,

One radical suggestion is to alternate campaigns, if you are not doing so now. Let someone else in the group take the DM'ing reins, and swith between your 3E campaign and another campaign. I guarantee it makes the Book-work a lot easier, as well as the stress relief. Even if you don't think you need it, it can still be a great help. Have you played enough yourself to appreciate the newfound powers that 3E gives the players? Perhaps there is a reason besides "just powergaming" that they like what 3E does for them?

 

[Rel]

I just had to interject that I find this discussion amusing. After years of playing 1ED&D, I switched over to Rolemaster and played it fairly exclusively for nearly a decade. Then I switched over to 3E not long after it came out because I felt that RM had become bloated and cumbersome.

As someone who has had many an argument with old RM cronies about how refreshingly simple 3E is, I find it funny to hear others who regard 3E as overly complex and long for the relative simplicity of 1E.

Anyhow, I guess it's all relative.

 

[bwgwl]

As someone who has had many an argument with old RM cronies about how refreshingly simple 3E is, I find it funny to hear others who regard 3E as overly complex and long for the relative simplicity of 1E.

i'm with you, except for me, it was coming to 3e from GURPS and HERO. at one point i refused to GM GURPS games any more because it was too complex -- d20 is simple enough for me to want to GM again.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

THe most important thing is to work this out with your players. Sit down with them, buy a pizza, and brainstorm together. It sounds as if you are already at an impasse that could threaten your enjoyment or that of your players. So, have a detente.

The earlier suggestion about the "3E basics" is a VERY good place to start from. Back in 1999, about august or september, when Dragon Magazine was doing the 3E countdown, there was a list of "10 things you can do to play 3E right now!" This would be a great thing to start with. In fact, if someone has the basics of this article available, and could post it here, I would appreciate it to accentuate my point.


Among the alterations that I can remember were:

1. Use attack bonus instead of THACO.
2. Use AC that goes up.
3. Use spontaneous healing for clerics - change the spell into (spell level)d8's of healing.
4. Use the death at -10 rule instead of 0 = dead.

Start from there, and work with your players to find out how much 1st edition they can stand, and simply 1st edition with what you know about 3rd edition.

OR,

One radical suggestion is to alternate campaigns, if you are not doing so now. Let someone else in the group take the DM'ing reins, and swith between your 3E campaign and another campaign. I guarantee it makes the Book-work a lot easier, as well as the stress relief. Even if you don't think you need it, it can still be a great help. Have you played enough yourself to appreciate the newfound powers that 3E gives the players? Perhaps there is a reason besides "just powergaming" that they like what 3E does for them?

I've never played 3e. Nobody else has the inclination to DM. Others have said they would run another game but it never comes into being. Actually I'm sure the free multiclassing has as much to do with their like of the system as the powergamy aspects of it. I don't want to mess with the spell system or such, that's fine. I don't mind static mods, just the ones that are changing every round and I have to keep track of which are mods that the players have plus all the feat mods the npc's have.

 

[mmadsen]

at one point i refused to GM GURPS games any more because it was too complex...

Out of curiosity, were you playing Basic GURPS, or were you playing Advanced GURPS with lots of optional rules?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I don't see GURPS being that difficult unless you are using the advanced combat rules. GURPS lite is very simple.