Has anyone used Mark of Justice spell?

[Jovah]

has anyone used the Mark of Justice spell??

On a party memeber?


The spell basically states that if the enspelled does not follow some rules/restrictions he gets cursed.

We are half-jokingly discussing using it on thw meandering thief.

 

[Numion]

My players used it, not on own partymember though.

They used it on a certain never-do-well thief, who was used as a pawn for certain Black Dragon to sell treaure maps to it's lair. As players decided they shouldn't just kill him, they Marked the guy. Which was of course nicer than killing. (IIRC the spells negative effects though lead to Ruperts demise. Too bad.)

 

[Rashak Mani]

Neat Spell.... I hadnt read it yet... guess I dont have 9th level Clerics just yet.

You could put it on a Party Member voluntarily as part of some kind of healing/redemption... "If you try to Drink you will vomit"... great for stopping the fighters from getting drunk.

Would a curse actually kill someone thou ?

 

[Storminator]

I used it on a pair PC rogues. The church needs secret police that can't be subject to a Detect Good spell, and naturally you can't trust those guys.

So they have to follow orders and act in the church's best interests or POW! I just give them a standard Bestow Curse tho. And since the alternative was hanging, they signed up.

PS

 

[mmadsen]

I love this spell, but 5th level? I thought 3rd level was a bit steep for Bestow Curse...

 

[mmadsen]

I think it's a bit sad that no one seems to be using such a great spell. I also think it's a bit sad that Magic Missile and Shield are 1st-level spells, while Bestow Curse is 3rd-level (4th for Wizards) and Mark of Justice is 5th-level (and not available to Wizards). Would it lead to abuse if they were 1st level?

 

[Darkness]

I think it's a bit sad that no one seems to be using such a great spell. I also think it's a bit sad that Magic Missile and Shield are 1st-level spells, while Bestow Curse is 3rd-level (4th for Wizards) and Mark of Justice is 5th-level (and not available to Wizards). Would it lead to abuse if they were 1st level?

Bestow curse and mark of justice have a permanent duration... I don't think that a permanent (until removed), say, -6 to an ability score would be a good idea for a 1st-level spell.
Worse yet, they are very flexible - most spells can do only one or two things, but these can do quite a few different things (e.g., -4 to all attacks, -4 to all saves, target acts as he wants to only 50% of the time, etc.).

Besides, while magic missile might be strong, it's one of the strongest 1st-level spells and thus, should be the maximum of 1st-level spells' power.
Also, it's not only powerful, but also ridiculously easy to counter: Just cast shield on yourself and you're immune. What's more, since every wizard or sorcerer (well, let's say 95%) has it, everyone and his cousin can counterspell it.

As for shield: You can only cast it on yourself (not even on allies), it's effective only on half the battlefield, and it lasts only 1 minute per level - enough for a battle, but not for much longer than that.

Sure, these spells are powerful, but making bestow curse or mark of justice 1st level would be a bit too much IMNSHO.

 

[Terwox]

I was going to use this spell in a different way -- for a group of shadow thieves, with the trigger being something like "if you purposely harm another member of your party, bad thing X happens." Campaign never happened, so I didn't work out all the details.
And yes, I basically just ripped off the vaulderie. It IS a decent idea for keeping individuals from killing each other, and letting the rightfully paranoid trust each other, though.

 

[mmadsen]

Bestow curse and mark of justice have a permanent duration... I don't think that a permanent (until removed), say, -6 to an ability score would be a good idea for a 1st-level spell.

Mark of Justice has a 10-minute casting time and involves writing on the target. Thus it only works on a willing or restrained target. Consider it a spellcasting Coup de Grace. After all, a mundane Coup de Grace certainly is permanent.

Bestow Curse, on the other hand, can be cast in combat, but it still requires a Touch Attack (oddly). At any rate, -6 to an ability score really only scares high-level foes; anyone else is much more scared of straight damage from a spell of the same level.

As a 4th-level Wizard spell, Bestow Curse is a bit of a joke. Compare it to Phantasmal Killer -- 3d6 or instant death. Polymorph Other -- effective death. A Fireball or Lightning Bolt cast by the same Wizard -- 7d6 damage, at range, affecting multiple targets. Unless you have far more Hit Points than a 7d6 attack dishes out, that attack means something much more permanent than Bestow Curse's -6 to one Ability.

Even if we made Bestow Curse 1st level, would anyone use it in a dungeon crawl? What if we made it 1st level and ranged? OK, I could see that getting used a lot, but only against big enemies. Magic Missile would still be more useful against most foes.

And, of course, the spell doesn't have to be permanent. What if the caster needs to provide an "escape clause" (kissed by a prince, or whatever), or if the curse lasts "a year and a day"?

Also, [Magic Missile]'s not only powerful, but also ridiculously easy to counter: Just cast shield on yourself and you're immune. What's more, since every wizard or sorcerer (well, let's say 95%) has it, everyone and his cousin can counterspell it.

Maybe Shield should block Bestow Curse? Maybe a separate Spell Shield should block Bestow Curse, Sleep, etc.?

Something to think about...

 

[Darkness]

In an interactive dungeon crawl (e.g., RttToEE) - or just one where foes (or heroes) occasionally retreat and could be encountered again later -, its duration is quite handy. Can't beat something (say, it has energy resistance or damage reduction) but have some days to spare? Just nail the critter with bestow curse as often as you can, retreat, prepare other spells, and come back.

Heh. Anyway, I have to admit that I've always seen bestow curse as more of a cleric spell anyway (which it probably is, too, given that it's lower level for them) and thus, didn't really compare it to other 4th-level wizard spells.

I still wouldn't reduce bestow curse to 1st level... Reducing it by one level (Clr 2, Wiz 3) sounds good enough to me, though.

At that level, we have hold person (also Clr 2, Wiz 3) - which is a spell with a nastier effect (helplessness) and a much greater range (Medium), but also much less flexibility (only one possible effect, and only usable on size M or smaller Humanoids; it's also mind-affecting, but since few Humanoids are immune to that, that's not an issue in most cases) and duration (only 1 round/level).

Sounds about right IMNSHO.

As for mark of justice: Good point about the casting time! Considering that, it might be better to place it at the same level as bestow curse - or 1 above that, but certainly not 2.