Has anyone used Mark of Justice spell?

[hong]

The problem with Bestow Curse -- well, one of them -- is that it cripples a character without killing him, and you, as DM, might use it quite casually (since it's nonlethal), not realizing it's worse than death for the player (who can always make a new character if his old one dies).

More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion you've never actually played D&D and in particular 3E, as opposed to harping on about it on web boards.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

 

[Darkness]

There are a lot of things that work that way though. As DM, you routinely hold back any attack that could kill off the whole party. Imagine ambushing a low-level party with multiple Sleep spells then slitting their throats. You'd never do it!

Incorrect - if there are spellcasters with sleep who have a reason and an opportunity to ambush the PCs, that's exactly what they'll do. As for slitting their throats: Sure, if they have a reason. *shrug*

 

[Sigma]

There are a lot of things that work that way though. As DM, you routinely hold back any attack that could kill off the whole party. Imagine ambushing a low-level party with multiple Sleep spells then slitting their throats. You'd never do it!

Not true. If the EL was appropriate for the characters involved, and the party left themselves open to a tactic like that, they'd get hit with sleep spells by me. I don't hold back with encounters that have appropriate EL's for the characters' levels. I wouldn't put a 1st level party against 3 1st level wizards with sleep because that would be an EL of 3, and not a fair fight. If it were a 3rd level party, I might try this tactic, but you would need to keep in mind how less effective sleep is against higher Hit Die opponents.

The problem with Bestow Curse -- well, one of them -- is that it cripples a character without killing him, and you, as DM, might use it quite casually (since it's nonlethal), not realizing it's worse than death for the player (who can always make a new character if his old one dies).

I agree, it is a big pain in the butt, which is why I think that it's level is appropriate and that it is not an underpowered spell.

Absolutely. It's the kind of spell that can scare high-level, high-Hit Point characters. Low-level characters should fear a Magic Missile a whole lot more though.

I'm not sure what you're defining as low level. A 5th level barbarian with a 14 Con will have on average 48 hit points (58 when raging). A fighter, ranger, or paladin will only have 5 fewer hit points than that. A 5th level wizard casting magic missile will inflict 10.5 damage with that spell. Considering that the warriors gain 7.5-8.5 hit points per level, and that the wizard's magic missile does an extra 3.5 damage every two levels, magic missile rapidly decreases in utility as an opponent hits mid-levels (5-8). As a DM, if you try and whittle down the melee monsters with damage, it's just not going to work. Bestow curse, hold person, and other non-damaging spells remove a threat (generally the threat that does a lot of damage) and allow for the NPC's to gain a numbers advantage or take out a very dangerous foe. My point is that damage is not the end all be all of spells, and that if the players don't fear bestow curse, blindness/deafness, or other non-damaging will-save spells, then the DM isn't using those spells correctly.

 

[Victim]

One of my characters has used Mark of Justice. Considering that the thief we captured and Marked escaped anyway, I can't say that it was very useful. Of course, I never got around to scrying for the thief, so the Mark - which should have been triggered by the escape attempt - may have hindered her enough to make her easy prey for a dinosaur. I doubt it.

Remove Curse makes the so called crippling Bestow Curse more like a short term annoyance, just like healing can make any damage that doesn't kill someone pretty trivial. A cursed character probably isn't any more unplayable than an injured or sick one - it's only one relatively low level spell to remove.