Has anyone used Mark of Justice spell?

[Ycore Rixle]

In our campaign, a dwarven cleric of Thor cast mark of justice on a frost giant he had defeated. He made the mark Mjolnir, and put the mark right on the frost giant's forehead. Now no other giants will let him play their reindeer games... but he is planning circuitous revenge against the cleric, of course.

 

[Darkness]

In our campaign, a dwarven cleric of Thor cast mark of justice on a frost giant he had defeated. He made the mark Mjolnir, and put the mark right on the frost giant's forehead. Now no other giants will let him play their reindeer games... but he is planning circuitous revenge against the cleric, of course.

What would trigger the mark's curse?

 

[hong]

As for mark of justice: Good point about the casting time! Considering that, it might be better to place it at the same level as bestow curse - or 1 above that, but certainly not 2.

Mark of justice is essentially a limited geas/quest spell. Just because it isn't useful in combat doesn't mean it isn't useful elsewhere, just like geas/quest. The example of phantasmal killer just indicates that that particular spell is supreme cheese (a fact that's been known since 1E days).

mmadsen has a mild obsession about bestow curse, and (as always) forgets the lower-level curses:

daze
bane
cause fear
doom
charm person
sleep
inflict light/moderate wounds
reduce
blindness/deafness
desecrate
hold person
shatter
hypnotic pattern
ghoul touch
scare

 

[mmadsen]

mmadsen...forgets the lower-level curses:

You think those spells are lower-level curses? Out of that entire list, only blindness/deafness strikes me as a curse. Most are just fear spells (Bane, Cause Fear, Doom, Scare) or enchantments (Daze, Charm Person, Sleep, Hold Person, Hypnotic Pattern). I have no idea why Inflict Light Wounds, Shatter, or Ghoul Touch would be on the list.

I can't imagine a wicked witch cursing the spiteful townsfolk to be...hypnotically patterned for a minute or so.

 

[hong]

You think those spells are lower-level curses? Out of that entire list, only blindness/deafness strikes me as a curse.

Expand your horizons.

 

[mmadsen]

Expand your horizons.

"For your crimes against me, I condemn you to minutes of abject terror!" No, still doesn't work for me.

 

[Darkness]

"For your crimes against me, I condemn you to minutes of abject terror!" No, still doesn't work for me.

Better than nothing, ain't it?

Think about it - a normal human (or whatever) can't do anything of that sort. But a low-level caster can (but can't yet cast the more powerful things).

 

[WinnipegDragon]

I've used it in a game, albeit improperly...

I had it cast on a party member, but it was cast by a being of particularly high power. Basically, it was used against him with a casting time of one action, and with him unwilling. Worked out great, and actually became quite a humourous source of role-playing goodness for a while.

It's really no more effective than bestow curse, but the advantage of setting a condition is quite helpful. In this case, the character decided not to obey the edict of a small town he was visiting (something akin to peace-bonding his weapon), so this particular being nailed him on the head with the Mark. He suffered excruciating pain and nausea until he aceeded to the townsfolk's wishes. Of course, everyone in town knew the mark was a sign that he was a troublemaker.

It played out very well.

 

[Sigma]

When the players are using it against the bad guys, sure, Bestow Curse isn't that powerful.

Now have the bad guys start flinging it at the players. A spellcaster can be crippled with this spell. for kicks, try targeting the cleric's wisdom with it sometime. If you get through their Will save, not only will they have their spell power greatly reduced, you might hit them hard enough to leave them unable to prepare remove curse.

I could see bringing it down a bit, blindness deafness is a comparable spell with a similar permanent effect (try using magic missile when you're blind), but if so, then remove curse should be lowered accordingly.

Bestow Curse is in the same vein as feeblemind, it's not designed to kill someone by doing damage, it's designed to cripple their capabilities. I hit the party's barbarian with the 50% inaction version one time. Bringing his hit points down would've taken way too long and required a lot of heavy firepower. This spell crippled him to the point where he got to act 2 rounds out of 5. In a pitched battle, where that one character was the big gun, that made a bigger difference than the 17.5 damage a fireball would've done.

 

[mmadsen]

When the players are using it against the bad guys, sure, Bestow Curse isn't that powerful. Now have the bad guys start flinging it at the players.

There are a lot of things that work that way though. As DM, you routinely hold back any attack that could kill off the whole party. Imagine ambushing a low-level party with multiple Sleep spells then slitting their throats. You'd never do it!

The problem with Bestow Curse -- well, one of them -- is that it cripples a character without killing him, and you, as DM, might use it quite casually (since it's nonlethal), not realizing it's worse than death for the player (who can always make a new character if his old one dies).

I could see bringing it down a bit, blindness deafness is a comparable spell with a similar permanent effect (try using magic missile when you're blind), but if so, then remove curse should be lowered accordingly.

I'd prefer that curses had a mundane, but very difficult, cure, something like following the prescription of a Mark of Justice for a year and a day.

In a pitched battle, where that one character was the big gun, that made a bigger difference than the 17.5 damage a fireball would've done.

Absolutely. It's the kind of spell that can scare high-level, high-Hit Point characters. Low-level characters should fear a Magic Missile a whole lot more though.