Has the age of the big book arrived?

[buzz]

Unless the cost comes down that is. Even at $40 a crack, it's not too back, but once you start breaking the $50 barrier, warning signs, at least for me, start to flash.

If anythng, cost will continue to rise, barring technological breakthroughs that make printing cheaper. And, really, I'm okay with that, as I'm a firm believer that RPGs are in general underpriced, and are luxury items upon which more profit could be made (and companies thus better sustain themselves).

As long as the quality is there, I have no problem paying $50+ for a big honkin' book. I am also becoming more and more willing to pay for PDFs (I bought Iron Heroes last night from DTRPG, the first time I've ever paid for an RPG PDF). Ergo, even if book prices climb out of the reach of some people, PDFs will be there to meet the needs of the cost-conscious.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I hate the trend toward big books, and hardcovers in general.

I'll wait for novels to come out in paperback or trade paperback to buy them (or even take them out of the library); I'd pay as much or more for paperbacks out of pure personal preference. RPGs never come out in paperback if they start in hardcover.

The current crop of "big books" really turned me off from those product lines. The IKCG is a beast on its own, at "only" 400 pages. I skipped Arcana Evolved and World of Warcraft largely because of their sheer physical size (and attendant inconvenience), although in the latter case the switch from the Warcraft RTS's canon to the MMO's also impacted by purchasing decision. I'll probably avoid Spycraft 2.0 for the same reason. Much as I love the HERO system, I'm reluctant to buy its core rules because that towering tome would be such a pain to use compared to Sidekick.

My favorite RPG books, production-wise, are the 3.0 splats and their 3rd-party kin, like Blood & Fists, the Book of Iron Might, or Mongoose's Quint series. I like the content of Complete Warrior more than that of Sword & Fist, but I sure prefer the latter at the gaming table - doubly so en route to said table.

 

[HellHound]

D&D 3.5 is 960pp for the core ruleset.
GURPS is 576pp for the core ruleset.
Vampire:tR is 518pp for the core ruelset (WoD + V:tR).

What's the big difference?

(And, to pimp HERO, at least all you'll ever really need is that 592pp rulebook. HERO isn't supplement-reliant, like most other RPGs. Secondary pimp: you can get the 128-page Sidekick [i.e., HERO Basic] for $10.)

D&D - The big difference is that I can spoon-feed the players D&D with a much smaller book - the PHB.

GURPS - dont' even get me started (again) with my anti-GURPS rant.

Vampire - I wouldn't have boguht into the new vampire if it weren't for my obsession with the old one. The one with a much smaller page count. And the rules can be distiled down to about 20 pages for a player.

I was unaware of HERO Basic, and would be a lto less hesitant to buy Hero knowing about it.

As for supplement-reliant, I ran D&D for ages without supplements, including a core D&D3e campaign that ran for 16 months using only the DMG & PHB (no MM). I haven't yet bought a supplement for the new Vampire, and I'm loving it. In fact, I ran a 2e Vampire campaign for three years with no supplements. I actually don't think that many good RPGs are "supplement-reliant" as you state... The ones that actually require supplements to play... I'll just not play.

Seriously, why is a single 500+ page book daunting, but D&D books and supplements two feet thick on your gaming shelf not? I've never understood this.

Because that two feet of D&D (actually, currently 15 feet of D&D) is D&D, a game I know I can get players for at the drop of a hat, and a game that I -know- the rules to. Ditto for the 8 feet of World of Darkness material and the 3 feet of CyberPunk stuff.

Heck, when it comes to hero, I pull out my first edition HERO book and have run a few games in the past four years with it. But it isn't a core game in my household, nor with my friends, so investing the money and then the time into a 500-page book -is- daunting.

 

[HellHound]

RPGs never come out in paperback if they start in hardcover.

Not entirely true. Check out Conan... or the pocket guides for D&D & Modern (also from Mongoose).

 

[Razuur]

I cannot lie, I love the new big sturdy fat hardcovers. I end up grabbing one of them off my shelpf versus a smaller one for recretional reads. They are mightily impressive tomes, jam packed with information. I would by more smaller products in print, but frankly, not a lot comes out anymore - a shame as I always made room from them in my budget.

But AE, BCCS, M2E, WoW(2e), IKWG... In my head, this is the way a RPG book should be. Massive tomes brimming with knowledge.

I am sorry, but they give me real warm fuzzies.

Razuur

 

[Voadam]

RPGs never come out in paperback if they start in hardcover.

At the end of 2e they were printing books in paperback that had been hardbacks before like the player's and DM's options books.

 

[buzz]

D&D - The big difference is that I can spoon-feed the players D&D with a much smaller book - the PHB.

Sidekick basically serves this purpose for HERO.

I actually don't think that many good RPGs are "supplement-reliant" as you state...

I'm using the phrase in the sense that it's rare game that has supplements that don't really present anything really new or add on much to the system. HERO is one of those few exceptions, in that its supplements a really just genre guides ans prefab bits anyone could build with the core book and the knowhow. With D&D and most other RPGs, every book tends to contain something that doens't exist in the core rules (hence the enticement to buy it).

This is different (in my mind) from RPGs specifically designed to require a constant stream of books in order to play the game.

I dunno. My point is really just that I don't see a big difference between a fat book and dividing said contents of that fat book between 2-3 books. I still end up having to read the same amount of pages in order to get a complete picture of the system. Ergo, I don't mind getting it all in one volume.

Because that two feet of D&D (actually, currently 15 feet of D&D) is D&D, a game I know I can get players for at the drop of a hat, and a game that I -know- the rules to. Ditto for the 8 feet of World of Darkness material and the 3 feet of CyberPunk stuff.

Sure, but that's really a different issue altogether. Assuming you get to play the game, I don't see the difference between one big book and 2-3 smaller ones.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Point about Conan.

Post-Spelljammer 2e books don't count as RPG products. They can be found in the same section of the library as the Necronomicon and other blasphemous abominations dredged from alien minds.

 

[Geoffrey]

Don't forget the World Book of Khaas: Legendary Lands of Arduin, which has 821 pages.

http://empcho.bizhosting.com/worldguide.html

 

[philreed]

Don't forget the World Book of Khaas: Legendary Lands of Arduin, which has 821 pages.

http://empcho.bizhosting.com/worldguide.html

Wow! That's way too big for me.