Hasbro makes money, everyone wins

Hmm, micropayments.

I'm not against them, but my feeling is that fundamentally it's a losing proposition. Game rules are hard to protect, both from a technological and from a legal standpoint. Technologically, game rules are very easy to reproduce. And legally they aren't protected in the same way that something like music is.

If you're going to sell game rules, your price had better be very, very low and the process extremely convenient, b/c otherwise piracy makes more sense to rational people who tend toward chaotic neutral. Essentially when you try and sell 'crunch' you're directly competing with people who are distributing the same thing for free.

I think Wizard's needs to make their peace with that and concentrate on making money from the things that they do that are hard to pirate - there will always be a market for nicely bound books with high quality artwork, for instance, no matter how ubiquitous PDFs become. There's also things like miniatures, battle maps, map tiles, tokens and of course dice. These are all ancillary products that can't be pirated.

Then of course there's software services built to make playing the game easier: character builders, character visualizers, virtual tabletops. Charge a subscription fee and watch the money roll in (assuming the tools are good quality).

I honestly believe that Wizards should consider giving the game away for free, or a price very close to free, and instead focus on making money from these kinds of secondary products and services. The cheaper the game is the more players you get. And therefore the more potential customers there are for the 'secondary' stuff, like a virtual tabletop.

An interesting thing about D&D is that players that span generations. You've got college students who are downloading PDFs and playing in their dorms. You've got guys in their 40's and 50's who cut their teeth on 1st edition. The former players aren't going to give you much money because they don't have much money. So give them the game for free (or very very cheaply) and at least ensure that you've got their eyeballs and are building some brand loyalty. Meanwhile you can be selling those middle aged players boxed sets and deluxe anniversary edition coffee table books. Cha ching!

I'm always surprised that Wizards makes so little effort to capture the market for the secondary market that surrounds D&D. Mostly they let third parties fill in those gaps in their product lines. In my mind, that's where the money is. The game rules I can get for free, if I'm so inclined. What I can't get for free are high quality custom minis, or full color cloth maps, or three-dimensional battlefield building kits, or special edition commemorative books with full color artwork commissioned from legendary fantasy artists.

Wizards doesn't sell these things. Instead they focus on trying to squeeze money out of books full of rules, rules can be copied and distributed digitally for free in the blink of an eye.

I'm not saying crunch isn't important. It's the core of the game. But it's not where the money is.
 

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Hmm, micropayments.

I'm not against them, but my feeling is that fundamentally it's a losing proposition. Game rules are hard to protect, both from a technological and from a legal standpoint. Technologically, game rules are very easy to reproduce. And legally they aren't protected in the same way that something like music is.

If you're going to sell game rules, your price had better be very, very low and the process extremely convenient, b/c otherwise piracy makes more sense to rational people who tend toward chaotic neutral. Essentially when you try and sell 'crunch' you're directly competing with people who are distributing the same thing for free.

I think Wizard's needs to make their peace with that and concentrate on making money from the things that they do that are hard to pirate - there will always be a market for nicely bound books with high quality artwork, for instance, no matter how ubiquitous PDFs become. There's also things like miniatures, battle maps, map tiles, tokens and of course dice. These are all ancillary products that can't be pirated.

Then of course there's software services built to make playing the game easier: character builders, character visualizers, virtual tabletops. Charge a subscription fee and watch the money roll in (assuming the tools are good quality).

I honestly believe that Wizards should consider giving the game away for free, or a price very close to free, and instead focus on making money from these kinds of secondary products and services. The cheaper the game is the more players you get. And therefore the more potential customers there are for the 'secondary' stuff, like a virtual tabletop.

An interesting thing about D&D is that players that span generations. You've got college students who are downloading PDFs and playing in their dorms. You've got guys in their 40's and 50's who cut their teeth on 1st edition. The former players aren't going to give you much money because they don't have much money. So give them the game for free (or very very cheaply) and at least ensure that you've got their eyeballs and are building some brand loyalty. Meanwhile you can be selling those middle aged players boxed sets and deluxe anniversary edition coffee table books. Cha ching!

I'm always surprised that Wizards makes so little effort to capture the market for the secondary market that surrounds D&D. Mostly they let third parties fill in those gaps in their product lines. In my mind, that's where the money is. The game rules I can get for free, if I'm so inclined. What I can't get for free are high quality custom minis, or full color cloth maps, or three-dimensional battlefield building kits, or special edition commemorative books with full color artwork commissioned from legendary fantasy artists.

Wizards doesn't sell these things. Instead they focus on trying to squeeze money out of books full of rules, rules can be copied and distributed digitally for free in the blink of an eye.

I'm not saying crunch isn't important. It's the core of the game. But it's not where the money is.

Well, the thing is see, if you join DDI at all they have your CC#, it isn't 'micropayments', it is "tack that onto my monthly bill, please." Thus if you have a good enough digital environment that everyone who plays will naturally choose to use then you have it made.

I disagree though that gew-gaws are a really serious business opportunity. For every one you invent that sells 2 others sit in the warehouse and lose you money. It is a very hit and miss kind of business and it involves physical stuff. Now, maybe there is SOME reason to make a few selected items, but not a lot. The money is either in high volume physical products (books) or digital goods, which you can sell pretty cheaply. Worst case they don't require stocking and fulfilling so if you find some non-free content doesn't really sell much you PROBABLY recovered its cost to produce even so. You can always make it free.

Dice, tiles, minis, and boxed sets with tokens etc. all make sense. They are relatively cheap and have good utility for players. Modules are another one. It is one thing to have only DDI for your ordinary books (or PDFs etc if they ever reappeared) but every adventure has at least nice maps you probably want. There will be a market for those in paper form for a long time.
 

What I can't get for free are high quality custom minis, or full color cloth maps, or three-dimensional battlefield building kits, or special edition commemorative books with full color artwork commissioned from legendary fantasy artists.

Wizards doesn't sell these things. Instead they focus on trying to squeeze money out of books full of rules, rules can be copied and distributed digitally for free in the blink of an eye.

I'm not saying crunch isn't important. It's the core of the game. But it's not where the money is.

And why is it that Wizards doesn't sell these things? Could it be that it's because they've TRIED the miniatures market and it didn't succeed enough to warrant massive continuation? And don't you think that after 30+ years, the owners of the D&D copywrite would have started to produce a line of cloth maps if they found that actually would sell? Heck, I barely ever hear of any third-party companies that make their business on cloth maps. And the same holds true for 3D terrain or special D&D fantasy art books. Just because YOU would buy it... doesn't mean it is a viable income source.

Wizards of the Coast is a GAME company. They produce GAMES... whether that is in book form or online. And personally, I can't believe how some of you folks give WotC so little credit when you just tell us you can't understand why WotC doesn't go into those OTHER markets because "that's where the money is". Just how blind do you think this company is? Doesn't the fact that they DON'T saturate the market with miniatures, but DO produce monthly volumes of game rules give us a pretty good indication of where the money REALLY is? I'm not saying they're flawless and everything they touch is gold... but I am saying that I think most of the time the things WotC avoids touching is probably crap (from a money-making perspective for a company of WotC's size).

But maybe you know the gross yearly income of Reaper Miniatures and it truly is more than WotC pulls in. If that's the case and you have evidence to prove it, I'd gladly come back here and change my statement.
 
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Yeah, basically if gaming accessories and such were a great business opportunity I think Gamescience would be the 900 pound gorilla of the gaming world. Lou Zocchi has probably sold more of that kind of stuff in the last 30 years than everyone else in the business combined. It is a tiny niche business that requires a completely different kind of organization than publishing.
 

Yeah, basically if gaming accessories and such were a great business opportunity I think Gamescience would be the 900 pound gorilla of the gaming world. Lou Zocchi has probably sold more of that kind of stuff in the last 30 years than everyone else in the business combined. It is a tiny niche business that requires a completely different kind of organization than publishing.

This, OH GOD THIS.

I mean... let's be absolutely rational here.

I don't see industry experts here. I don't see opinions waged by people who have experience producing, launching, and successfully creating profitable revenue streams in the gaming sector. I don't see managers of successful gaming companies, and I certainly don't see industry names known not only for momentary bouts of creativity but for their ability to make good business decisions.

I see a bunch of customers.

I see consumers.

So, I see two opposing opinions on how a gaming company should be run: I see the opinion of individuals trying to create their visions of the future of gaming today on one hand; and I see the most successful gaming company there is, and ever was on the other, backed by the most successful toy and game company there is and ever was.

So... you have WoTC, who have the ability to print money, who have more distribution channels in place than most gaming companies AND most conventional publishing companies, who have performed years of market research on their product lines to determine the most optimal way to get dollars for their hard work... vs... some guy on the internet who might not even know what 'Carta Mundi'* is and their relevance to the history of the business in question.

Yeeeaaaah. I'll go for the ones who make money doing this. They probably know how to make money doing this.


*Carta Mundi is the name of the printer for Magic.
 

Well, nothing says WotC has EVERY good business idea there is either. I mean from OUR perspective as customers and not game company managers it certainly does make sense to look at it as "whatever they are doing is the best way to run that business". From THEIR perspective OTOH I would want to always be on the lookout for that revolutionary idea that could shake things up. Of course looking at the various digital initiatives and whatnot we see going on it appears they ARE fairly aware of new possibilities. Maybe even much more so than we are. Some of the ideas on this thread though certainly seem like things that IF I were them I'd probably think about. Others, not so much...

The truth is nobody has a magic crystal ball and even with loads of marketing research companies DO often fail to ask the right questions and miss big market changes. Or they get complacent, or they become institutionally incapable of real change. OTOH jumping onto every bandwagon that wanders down the street isn't always a great idea either. Overall WotC still seems to be a pretty innovative company. It will be interesting to see what direction all this takes. It will also be interesting to see if any of the smaller and more likely to experiment companies like Paizo manage to figure it out better. I haven't seen any real sign of that so far, but you never know.
 

Well, nothing says WotC has EVERY good business idea there is either...

...From THEIR perspective OTOH I would want to always be on the lookout for that revolutionary idea that could shake things up.

Oh, of course. Absolutely. And we've seen that initiative in many places that were all-new for the owners of D&D.

The pre-painted plastic miniatures line was a huge new step that WotC took... not only to supplement their roleplaying game, but also to try and compete with Games Workshop (et. al.). Did the actually game itself succeed to the level they wanted? Apparently not, seeing as how the 'D&D Miniatures Game' was technically discontinued... but it certainly had a direct application in how 4E was put together. Couple this with the production of Dungeon Tiles, and D&D went further in a direction they had never gone before. And now, all of them are combined together into a new iteration of what the roleplay game is... and each facet is an important part of that game. While the 'Miniatures Game' was a technical misstep, it did show us that WotC could 'think outside the box' when it was right and financially viable to do so.

And by no means do I think WotC should or shouldn't try and add new things (book or accessory) to the game... but to suggest that they throw away one entire facet of that (the facet they've based their 30 years pf production on, the rules of the game) seems folly to me.
 

First of all it's not the most popular free to play game, by several orders of magnitude. Second they made it free to play to at least salvage something from it's failure as a normal MMO
Yes, and when they did it, there player base went up by over a million practically overnight, and the companies revenues increased by 500%. DDO is one of the great success stories of micro transactions vs subscriptions. Which is why Lotro went down the same path (and last I heard, they had doubled revenues already...after a few scant months!), and why you will see other failing MMO's doing the same (Warhammer...Im looking at you!)

The micro transaction model works well for them, and I agree with the sentiment of this post. I do subscriptions because I must, but I hate having to subscribe to 50% content which I actually use, and yet get the access I dont use (nor want).

I am a fan of the micro transaction model, and I think it is going to alter consumerism. I think D&D would be well served to pay attention.
 

The problem with the microtransaction model (from a purely ego-centric consumer viewpoint) is that they would still need to produce things which I feel the urge to buy.

That being said, I do feel it is possible -to some extent- for a gaming company to do this and make money. While it's not exactly the same model, the folks over at SJG do something similar with their Dungeon Fantasy line of books. Instead of producing huge books which contain everything, they have smaller books which focus on more specific topics. I can choose to pick up DF 12 for Ninjas without needing to get any of the books previous to that one if I want to. (However, that being said, the first two booklets are two you should have because they explain terms and ideas used in later books.)

However, I also think it's worth being said that -again, in my opinion from a purely consumer/gamer viewpoint, that the model works so well for them because their system's rules already do an excellent job of being modular and allowing me to craft the core mechanics into my vision of what I want a game to be. I don't need A and B for C to be plugged into my game; I can just as easily put C in there without A and B... if I really want to, I can even use a cursive or lowercase C and still feel confident that it will work.


GURPS Dungeon Fantasy
 

As someone who loves 4E but for whom this online only character builder is a no-go, I absolutely love this idea.

Microtransactions are a great way to keep folks like me (who have the disposable income) a part of your revenue stream.

I use Steam a lot, and absolutely love how I can buy a game (like Dragon Age) and whenever I want buy updates and new options for it. Any time I'm no longer interested, I can walk away, but I still have what I've purchased before.

I'd love it if the builder were structured this way, since I'm not afraid of giving WotC my money (I quite like doing that, when they produce a product I like) but I'm just also interested in actually getting a product, not a service which offers me nothing I can walk away with.

Now I don't expect this to actually happen, but you never know...

--Steve
 

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