Haste as 9th level spell

[maggot]

OK, so you are going to think me insane. Clear your mind and let me explain my reasoning. First, I wanted to remove the Haste spell (and all similar effects) from the game. It is very powerful. When one combatant has haste and the others don't, the hasted one rocks. So a few levels after wizards get Haste, everyone has boots of speed and every combat starts with each combatant hasting themselves. So if everyone will be hasted anyway, why bother with this annoying spell.

But then it struck me, what if Haste was a 9th level effect. So it would be very powerful, but at a level where very things are going on anyway.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I think haste as a higher level spell would be alright, but 9th might be a little much. If haste is 9th level, how are you going to handle Time Stop?

 

[maggot]

I think haste as a higher level spell would be alright, but 9th might be a little much. If haste is 9th level, how are you going to handle Time Stop?

I'd probably remove Time Stop. The other option is allow Time Stop, but not allow spells to work on others during the stopped time (or just after), making Haste better in someways, worse in others.

What level would you recommend for Haste in a Time Stop free world?

 

[hong]

I think haste as a higher level spell would be alright, but 9th might be a little much. If haste is 9th level, how are you going to handle Time Stop?

Time stop would be an empowered empowered empowered empowered empowered slow.

 

[Tzarevitch]

OK, so you are going to think me insane. Clear your mind and let me explain my reasoning. First, I wanted to remove the Haste spell (and all similar effects) from the game. It is very powerful. When one combatant has haste and the others don't, the hasted one rocks. So a few levels after wizards get Haste, everyone has boots of speed and every combat starts with each combatant hasting themselves. So if everyone will be hasted anyway, why bother with this annoying spell.

But then it struck me, what if Haste was a 9th level effect. So it would be very powerful, but at a level where very things are going on anyway.

I agree with you about Haste being an awfully powerful spell for 3rd level. It provides all the benefit of Quicken Spell for the cost of a single 3rd level spell slot AND it lasts 1 round per level. That is way too powerful for a 3rd level spell especially since you can't even Quicken any real spell for the cost 3rd level slot. (Quickening 1 cantrip costs a 4th level slot and that is the lowest you can go.) Haste provides the benefit of the Quicken Spell feat at no further cost than the cost of a 3rd level slot AND it lasts a round per level. That is incredible powerful for 3rd level.

In my game I run Haste like in 2e. It provides an extra partial action but cannot be used to perform a 2nd magical action in the same round (cast spell, use magic item etc.)

I also don't disagree with your assessment that Haste as written should be a 9th level spell (I say 7th or 8th myself but 3e isn't an exact science). After all, there was a small group of spells from 2e (not including that vile abomination called Chronomancy) that allowed someone to cast more than one spell in a round, and almost all of them were VERY high level. To top it off, I don't recall any of those spells lasting as long as 3e Haste does.

If you do slot Haste in as a 9th level spell, I agree with the earlier poster who said that you should delete Timestop. They operate similarly but Timestop is more potent in every way so they can't be on the same level. Admittedly I can't stand the 3e Timestop spell for any number of reasons but this thread is not about Timestop so I won't get into that here.

Tzarevitch

 

[TheFlamingRheo]

Okay, here is a question when it actually struck you what exactly were you smokin', I would like to know just so my brain doesn't turn into a stinkin pile o' crap just like yours did when you thought of this ludcrious idea. You mean to tell me haste is just as powerful as wish, energy drain, meteor storm, etc. Please rethink this before you become even more embarassed.

 

[Kraedin]

I don't think many wizards would cast haste at ninth level when mass haste is level six. Anyway, doesn't anyone around here ever cast slow? Against groups it is far better than haste, and takes out their hastes as well.

 

[Malin Genie]

I dont know if this was part of the spell in 2e, which I never played P&P, but I remember in Icewind Dale Haste was still powerful for a third level spell, but made the target fatigued at the end of the duration. Perhaps this would be a good way of balancing he spell and making wizards think twice before casting it?