Haste/Hustle

[Eltern]

Simple question: Why can't the arcane Haste have the same effect as the psionic Hustle? I realize that Hustle is a swift action and whatnot, so it throws a bit of complexity in there, but wouldn't an arcane Haste that just says "Gain an extra move-equivalent action every round" with none of the listed haste bonuses or extra attacks be more effective ("effective" obviously meaning embody what many envision the spell as )? Or should this become fourth level?

Eltern

 

[RigaMortus]

Don't they do completely seperate things though? Hustle just gives you an extra move action, where as Haste gives you an extra attack (can't use a move action as an attack) along with pluses to AC and Ref.

 

[Lamoni]

Simple question: Why can't the arcane Haste have the same effect as the psionic Hustle? I realize that Hustle is a swift action and whatnot, so it throws a bit of complexity in there, but wouldn't an arcane Haste that just says "Gain an extra move-equivalent action every round" with none of the listed haste bonuses or extra attacks be more effective ("effective" obviously meaning embody what many envision the spell as )? Or should this become fourth level?

Eltern

I actually don't see why this can't be... just that it wasn't written that way. When they nerfed haste (which was a good decision), I think they should have made it give you either an extra move action OR an extra attack during a full-attack. That way it could still be useful for spellcasters if it was cast on them. Right now it only benefits the melee fighters.

However, this wasn't done. I don't think it would be unbalancing if you chose to house-rule haste into allowing the extra move action... but I am not sure what else can be said in the rules-forum about it.

 

[Scion]

Although I disagree with the change to haste (we have yet to see any problems with it in any game I have run or been in) I think they didnt make it add an extra move for a very important reason: It would still be incredibly strong for melee types.

Effectively, it would give melee types pounce. You move up with your extra move action, and get a full attack in.

 

[Lamoni]

Effectively, it would give melee types pounce. You move up with your extra move action, and get a full attack in.

I never thought about that. I would still have to play it to see if that would pose a problem with haste granting pounce (which I never plan on doing), but my initial idea was to not allow the extra move action with a full attack. It would allow you to move twice as far to get to your opponent and still make a single attack, but if you wanted to make a full attack you'd have to start next to them and then haste could grant you an extra attack in that full-round action.

This is just moving further away from the rules and into house rules. But not granting the additional move action was probably inspired to prevent granting pounce. That could be very deadly and haste would probably need a higher spell slot.

 

[Darklone]

Yeah and since pounce or the old 3.0 haste charge-full attack combo for fightertypes was nerfed for good, they had to put it back into the psionics book ... *rant*

 

[Scion]

I never had any problem with the move - full attack combo either myself There were so many limitations to useing it either way ::shrugs::

But, what is the problem with a single ability for a class to pay a very limited resource to be able to do something fairly minor? since they dont have full BAB progression.

Still, the 'new' haste has its own issues. Adding an extra complication of 'you can move extra, but not a move action, but this.. and not that.. and..' just seems a bit too much

 

[Eltern]

Yes, this thread really should have been in house-rules :\

The main reason I would like to see hast act like hustle (maybe as a fourth level version) is so it IS useful for spell-casters, so full-attack tankers can follow their prey, and so that Spring Attackers over fifth level care about their extra attacks. Now, those last two seem to ruffle some feathers, so maybe their's more implications to this than I can see before me.

Eltern

 

[Plane Sailing]

Simple question: Why can't the arcane Haste have the same effect as the psionic Hustle?

One of the big differences of course is that Hustle only lasts 1 round, while haste lasts for a whole combat in most cases.

Since hustle is a 3rd level egoist power, it seems that it would be OK to create an arcane hustle at 3rd level which was cast as a swift action and gave you an extra move action that round (only). that would be pretty balanced.

 

[Eltern]

Of course, I would personally like for it to have the duration/standard action casting time of the current haste, so sounds like it needs to be 4th level, at least, and for this to be in house rules