Have These Basic Questions been answered yet?

[marune]

Wait a minute. The player was horribly screwed over by the rules. The DM did not prevent this. And your solution is to "DM-proof" the game? It was more DM intervention that was needed here, not less.

I agree that the DM should have done something about this, but the ultimate fault lay with the idiotic rule that requires PCs to roll for hit points. If you want to fix the system to prevent this, DM-proofing is not the answer. Removing the "roll for hit points" rule is.

A good use of randomness is a gamist RPG is not a problem (after all, many non-RPG games made use of it, cards game for instance).

However, HP in D&D have an huge long-lasting impact on the success of a player, so I would also like to have fixed HP in D&D 4E.

 

[Generico]

That's lame.

It might be time to find a new DM. I'm pretty good with accepting DM authority, but there are sometimes when you need to draw a line against bad DMing. If a DM tried to pull that in my group there would be a player revolt.

Seriously, when I hear stuff like that, it just reinforces why I think a certain amount of "DM proofing" the game is a VERY good idea.

I really don't understand the logic there. I mean, first you want your PC's stats to be ridiculously high, because god forbid they fail a check or a save. Then you want max HP. Then you make the DM mess with the monster stats on top of all that so "it's not power gaming"? Then you claim that allowing 2 HP rerolls is justification for DM-proofing?

Whatever you do, don't ever lose your current DM. You'll never find another one.

Honestly, the chances of a fighter rolling five 1s in the whole course of 20 levels are really slim. That's just bad luck. Take improved toughness or something. The vast majority of the time, HP rolls will average out over the course of a few levels. I've never had a character be gimped by bad HP rolls. There's always a way to make up for it.

 

[Jack99]

I really don't understand the logic there. I mean, first you want your PC's stats to be ridiculously high, because god forbid they fail a check or a save. Then you want max HP. Then you make the DM mess with the monster stats on top of all that so "it's not power gaming"? Then you claim that allowing 2 HP rerolls is justification for DM-proofing?

Whatever you do, don't ever lose your current DM. You'll never find another one.

Honestly, the chances of a fighter rolling five 1s in the whole course of 20 levels are really slim. That's just bad luck. Take improved toughness or something. The vast majority of the time, HP rolls will average out over the course of a few levels. I've never had a character be gimped by bad HP rolls. There's always a way to make up for it.

Lots of campaigns don't last enough levels for it to even out. Trust me, it is quite possible to be gimped by low hp rolls.

Either way, max hp was just too cheesy for us, so we went with rolling, but any roll below half becomes whatever number is just below half. (with 1d10 anything below 6 becomes a 5, with 1d8, anything below 5 becomes a 4, etc). We switched to that around 10 years ago, and have all been happy with it since. (it was one of my few stints as player that prompted me to change the rules, after having a level 5 paladin with 8 hps.)

We do 32 pts buy for stats, no need for us to play superhumans, but a decent stat or two is a must.

Anyhow, what was my point concerning 4e. Ah yeah, I really hope they don't do away with rolling hps, it would be stuff like that, that would make my players go: NO ¤#%&/() WAY , and refuse to switch to 4e. Yes, I realize it would extremely easy to houserule, wouldn't help much though. The damage would have been done already.

Cheers

 

[Victim]

I really don't understand the logic there. I mean, first you want your PC's stats to be ridiculously high, because god forbid they fail a check or a save. Then you want max HP. Then you make the DM mess with the monster stats on top of all that so "it's not power gaming"? Then you claim that allowing 2 HP rerolls is justification for DM-proofing?

Whatever you do, don't ever lose your current DM. You'll never find another one.

Honestly, the chances of a fighter rolling five 1s in the whole course of 20 levels are really slim. That's just bad luck. Take improved toughness or something. The vast majority of the time, HP rolls will average out over the course of a few levels. I've never had a character be gimped by bad HP rolls. There's always a way to make up for it.

Characters don't roll for other important class features. Skill points are fixed, as are BaB and saves. There's no random roll to pick up class features like Evasion. HD size is no less a major class feature, so why is it the only left to chance? If certain classes are supposed to more HP than others, they should actually have more HP and not a chance for more HP.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Lots of campaigns don't last enough levels for it to even out. Trust me, it is quite possible to be gimped by low hp rolls.

Either way, max hp was just too cheesy for us, so we went with rolling, but any roll below half becomes whatever number is just below half. (with 1d10 anything below 6 becomes a 5, with 1d8, anything below 5 becomes a 4, etc). We switched to that around 10 years ago, and have all been happy with it since. (it was one of my few stints as player that prompted me to change the rules, after having a level 5 paladin with 8 hps.)

We do 32 pts buy for stats, no need for us to play superhumans, but a decent stat or two is a must.

Anyhow, what was my point concerning 4e. Ah yeah, I really hope they don't do away with rolling hps, it would be stuff like that, that would make my players go: NO ¤#%&/() WAY , and refuse to switch to 4e. Yes, I realize it would extremely easy to houserule, wouldn't help much though. The damage would have been done already.

Cheers

Ummmm.... the mechanic is so broken that your group had to house-rule it, but if WotC fixed the mechanic your group would rebel? Huh?

 

[Cmarco]

Curses upon my name taste like manna from heaven.

Mmm mmm good.

Mourn, you are truly awesome.

 

[kennew142]

1. From what is know at the time, it will be point-buy by default, with the option of rolling them up as usual.

I believe that both systems will be presented, without one of them being a default system.

I would bet that hp will be the same as before with two exceptions:

1) Triple maximum hp at 1st level

2) No class uses d4 for hit points

These rules are in use in SWSE, and I think I read that both of these changes had been confirmed by the designers - but I can't remember where, and it's late.

 

[Gort]

I certainly hope there is no more rolling for HP. Seriously, do people still roll for hitpoints? No group I have been in has rolled hitpoints in ages. Everybody just gets max HP.

That's a really big nerf to things like damaging spells - where the wizard could take out a roomful of enemies with one fireball, he now needs two. It's not such a big deal for other people, because they don't run out of damage.

The way I do it is I give everyone the average of their hitdice - so a fighter gets 5.5 HP+con a level. That way fights don't last longer and wizards don't get nerfed.

I find that most of the people who "roll hitpoints" don't actually roll them properly - if they roll badly the DM lets them roll again. Why bother rolling if you're allowed to reroll if you get a bad result?

 

[Dragonblade]

I really don't understand the logic there. I mean, first you want your PC's stats to be ridiculously high, because god forbid they fail a check or a save. Then you want max HP. Then you make the DM mess with the monster stats on top of all that so "it's not power gaming"? Then you claim that allowing 2 HP rerolls is justification for DM-proofing?

Whatever you do, don't ever lose your current DM. You'll never find another one.

Honestly, the chances of a fighter rolling five 1s in the whole course of 20 levels are really slim. That's just bad luck. Take improved toughness or something. The vast majority of the time, HP rolls will average out over the course of a few levels. I've never had a character be gimped by bad HP rolls. There's always a way to make up for it.

In case you didn't think we were over the top enough, we also play gestalt sometimes!

Seriously, if you think 14s in every stat is "ridiculously" high then we just have a very different philosophy. I think the point buy method presented in the rules now is ridiculously too weak. I don't play a fantasy RPG so I can be marginally better than I am in real life, I play so I can be a mythic hero in the vein of Odysseus, Hercules, and Achilles. Thats what I find fun. If you find it fun to play a character that is marginal or average, more power to you.

Every PC should be able to swing two 18s in a couple stats but still have at least a +1 in every other stat. IMO, any PC wizard should have the intelligence needed to potentially become one of the best wizards on the planet. Likewise, a fighter character should have the STR and DEX necessary to become one of the most powerful or agile warriors on the planet. You are a PC, not random Joe Villager. Your character should be exceptional. If you want to play a PC with lesser stats, go ahead. But my desire to play an extraordinary hero shouldn't be restricted because someone else only wants to play a mediocre one.

Regarding hitpoints, I feel that every aspect of character development should ALWAYS be in the hands of the player. And by that I mean if I choose Barbarian because I envision playing a young Conan-esque character known for his strength and might, then I shouldn't have to worry about my image of that character being ruined because I rolled a 1 five times on my hp roll. Randomness in combat is fine, but a character concept shouldn't ever be undermined by random chance.

Also standardized hp is better from a balance perspective. It doesn't have to be max, but it should be a standard number with little variance from player to player and game to game. We just do max HP in our games because we are cool like that.

And by DM proofing the game, I mean that the rules should protect players from bad DMing, not enable them. Show me a DM who forces a player who rolls a 1 five times for hp to keep those rolls, and I'll show you a bad DM.

 

[FabioMilitoPagliara]

It's pathetic in 3e, where an 8 gives you a -1 to rolls.

It's something quite different in 4e, where you don't suffer penalties from ability scores, only bonuses.

well from what we know this is not the case, why change this? all the stat we have point to

(Stat-10)/2 as before + Level/2

see the pit fiend as an example, the damage bonus for strengh is +11, yet he got STR 32 (+24)