having a problem with aligment... Can anyone help??

[Psimancer]

On the other more serious hand, if you use different items with the same ability as a ring of mind shielding or a magical item with undetectable alignment permanently enchanted on it, then said item becomes more interesting. I mean, nothing says every magical item has to look the same.

Oh so very true... I love throwing non-wand looking wand items at my party... recently they picked up a Cloak of Feather Fall with only 3 charges left...

 

[Feldspar]

I don't like the current mechanics behind alignment how do you think I could change it?

Alignments started badly and haven't improved. With Gygax, its like everyone is a part of an extremist faction, including the "True" Neutral's. How else do you explain junk like alignment languages? :\ And more recently we were "gifted" with Faerun's cosmic mafia, "you better worship us, if you know what's good for ya!" Removing them from the game, or at least in a way that removes it completely from the understanding of characters of the world, is my goal, but I haven't got it figured all out yet.

Keep all alignments it helps with charter goals.
I think there are better ways to define goals. A short questionaire can do the same. If you ever played any of the Paladium games, I kind of like the way the different alignments in that game are defined and contrasted by a short series of statements. For example, who the character would keep their word to (anyone, friend, other presumed honorable people, will break their word whenever they feel like, etc).


1: (like eberron suggests) gods have better things to do then watch all their clerics and make sure they are being good. (unless they do something on an epic scale)
I like what Eberron has done there, but even cooler has been to create a cosmology and a reason for evil outsiders (spawned out of Khyber) that doesn't rely on there being "planes of evil" - no Abyss or 9 Hells.

2: no detect evil spell.. I plan on giving Paladins something else in that place but not sure yet
I have an, IMHO, a freaking AWESOME idea for this one Replace Detect Evil with a bonus to Sense Motive equal to their Paladin level. This should create some cool roleplay within the party as the Paladin tries to convince the other members of the party that the advisor of the king is up to no good, "I'm not sure why ... but, there's just something WRONG about him." I don't think you can get the same effect when any spellcaster in the party can simply cast Detect Evil to try to corroborate the Paladin's senses.

4: Clerics will have detect energy type on their spell list instead of detect evil and detect undead this will tell them if a creature is powered by positive or negative energy
Then you should allow evil clerics to choose between which kind of energy they channel. Identifying corruption in the church shouldn't be as easy as casting detect negative energy instead of detect evil ... unless that priest really is a filthy necromancer

5: no holy and unholy swords… this are just so powerful in most campaigns you will fight CE NE LE and N that 1 out of 4 that will not be affected by these kinds of weapon
Its a +2 bonus isn't it? I'm not sure its any more powerful than a flaming-shocking sword or some other elemental combination (which I believe the FAQ OK's as legal). The only problem I have is that it would be too much of a pain to work around not disclosing the alignment of the thing being fought.

 

[Ibram]

I use a "Sense Evil" power in place of the old Detetct Evil.

Sense Evil (Su): Starting at first level Templar Knights gain the ability to sense the presence of evil. When ever an undead, abomination, or outsider comes within 100 feet of the Templar Knight she may make an immediate Sense Motive check (this can be done untrained) opposed by the creatures will save. Success alerts the Templar Knight to the presence, and approximate location (ahead, behind, left, right, above, below) as well as allowing some insight into its strength.

Creature HD Sense Evil reading
1-5 Faint, minor, weak
6-15 Moderate, disturbing
16-25 Strong, powerful
26+ Overwhelming, mighty, malevolent

 

[IcyCool]

IcyCool, ‘Know thy Foe’ really doesn’t fix the problem, in fact, it makes it worse. IMO the problem isn’t the ‘at will’ nature of Detect Evil, but rather the absoluteness of it.

To be honest, I haven't playtested it yet, but I've had the exact opposite experience than you apparently. For some odd reason if a player sees that they have an ability at will, and Paladins in particular with Detect Evil, they use it all the time at the exculsion of anything else. Give it a limited number of uses per day, and suddenly they aren't trying to detect if every living creature they come accross is evil. It's almost as bad as the rogue who searches every 5ft. square of the dungeon for traps.

And for the record, given the definition earlier in the thread, I have only ever played with and GM'd for "Lawful Stupid" Paladins. Although, at least this one isn't a "Detect and Smite" Paladin.

 

[Psimancer]

...For some odd reason if a player sees that they have an ability at will, and Paladins in particular with Detect Evil, they use it all the time at the exculsion of anything else...

Really? Given the fact that it is a Concentration spell (taking a Standard action each round to maintain) and takes three rounds to identify the source of evil, I have never had a problem…

 

[Quickleaf]

I would remove the onus of having an evil alignment (if you play with alignment).
Perhaps the PCs often deal with those of evil alignment and are even allied with a few of them. Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they can't be trusted temporarily or allied with. Before introducing said betrayer, consider having the PCs ally with lots of people who are evil. In other words, make being evil not that bad. You may even get a discussion along the lines of "Well, what is my paladin really detecting when he detects evil?" And then you get to look at your paladin's church and come up with the shocking truth: Evil people are...

- Those who believe in the good of the individual over the good of society
- Those who maintain the end justifies the means
- Those who were enemies of the paladin's god in a past life in the great cosmic battle
- Those who have compromised their ideals and given up on their dreams
- Those who cling to the illusion of their authority when it's been stripped away
- Those who have told a lie or failed to pray that day
- Those who have renounced their faith in the gods at any point in their life
- Those who practice magic or have thought about practicing magic

You get the idea.

 

[Feldspar]

I would remove the onus of having an evil alignment (if you play with alignment).

I don't think that really works. The Paladin's god has granted them the ability to detect evil and to smite evil. I'm not really suprised when people playing Paladins put 2 and 2 together and come up "I should smite anyone I detect as evil!" Isn't that what their god has given them the power to do?

Evil people are...
- Those who practice magic or have thought about practicing magic

Are you suggesting that Paladin A's Detect Evil ability is going to detect different people as Evil than Paladin B's Detect ability if one comes from a society or church that believes practicing magic is evil? D&D just doesn't work that way; alignments are absolute.

Detect Evil shouldn't be "finds people who believe in something you don't like, whatever the heck that might be." I don't think you can have really have any kind of moral relativism until you remove the system that's in place.

 

[Quickleaf]

I don't think that really works. The Paladin's god has granted them the ability to detect evil and to smite evil. I'm not really suprised when people playing Paladins put 2 and 2 together and come up "I should smite anyone I detect as evil!" Isn't that what their god has given them the power to do?

Unless their god is fallible. Or intends it as a lesson in mercy.

Are you suggesting that Paladin A's Detect Evil ability is going to detect different people as Evil than Paladin B's Detect ability if one comes from a society or church that believes practicing magic is evil? D&D just doesn't work that way; alignments are absolute.

The assumption in D&D are that alignments are absolute. A quick change in how alignments are presented, however, and you get alignment entries that look like:
Sir Corrick: Lawful to those allied to the Church, Good to the serfs under his protection, Chaotic to woodsmen he broke his word to, Evil to the witches of Lambeurs, Neutral to everyone else.

Detect Evil shouldn't be "finds people who believe in something you don't like, whatever the heck that might be." I don't think you can have really have any kind of moral relativism until you remove the system that's in place.

Then remove the system if you want moral relativism, and leave it in place if you don't. Actually, it would be possible to craft a paladin power that didn't refer to alignment at all. Call it "sense heretic", and it detects those who have fallen from the paladin's faith or are sworn enemies of it.

 

[IcyCool]

Really? Given the fact that it is a Concentration spell (taking a Standard action each round to maintain) and takes three rounds to identify the source of evil, I have never had a problem…

Yes, really.

 

[Psimancer]

Yes, really.

Dude! I feel so sorry for you; you need new players!!!

On a serious note, I'd start making things time critical in your game - it'll suck if they keep failing missions because they have to move at half rate due to the Paladin concentrating on his Detect ability...