Hawaiian Flavor type game?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Don't do a sample setting. It's easy enough to knock out something like this, especially when you're talking a relatively small population. It's wasted space and even in a digital format, that matters. I'd rather have a discussion of typical governmental styles than have a default setting done instead.

If there's a burning need to do a default mythic Polynesian setting, make it a separate PDF.

 

[Turanil]

We also need to decide on the scope of this project whether it will be concentrated on Hawaiian structures or broadened out to the whole of Polynesia or even 'Oceania'. Also are we create a single archipelego or different 'sets' based on real world archipelago's of Polynesia

Well, since you are the expert I will let you decide.

Nonetheless, I think there is two possibilities: the historical setting and the fantasy setting. For example I have three AD&D/d20 books on Celts, both of which are "historical" treatments, the other (Slaine) which is definitely fantasy. Well, I think that both historical treatments while being an interesting read would be quickly boring to play, while Slaine is fun but nonetheless retain some strong Celtic flavor. Then, I think that making something close to D&D in scope, it will interest more gamers, with DMs having an easy time plugging it into their campaign (plus an archipelago can be plugged into almost any campaign!).

As such I guess that my preference is for something broadened out to the whole of Polynesia, but maybe not whole Oceania.

As for setting, my preference would be of making a single archipelago, but a large one with various islands in which we can find the different structures, maybe distributed along different PC races. However, this is clearly of a broadened and D&D oriented game rather than something historical.

I'd rather have a discussion of typical governmental styles than have a default setting done instead.

A discussion of typical governmental styles would probably go in the first part of the supplement. The setting part would not include the description of governments, social structure, etc. More of a map with short descriptions of places so a DM can have a quick archipelago if he doesn't want to do it himself.

 

[Turanil]

I found the following URL for Polynesian names. The only problem is that it is not allowed for copypasting as is. I guess a shorter selection, mixing, and maybe name altering would be needed.

 

[Kankichi]

In regards to whether a fantasy setting or a real world setting is done, I do not believe a strict adaptation of the real world would be as fun as a fantasy setting. Just as the standard Medieval fantasy setting does not usually strictly adhere to European life of the time, I believe that a similar balance can be struck here. In the end, I suppose the question is what is the purpose of this work? Fun or Fact? Not that they are mutually exclusive, just that it would direct us in one direction that would override one over the other in a possible conflict.

I was thinking that perhaps we could take a page out of Dark Sun's book in terms of weaponry. Obsidian tools were available in Hawaii, it is possible you could extrapolate it to include weapons.

Now for more mindless recollections on my part:

In Hawaii, land was organized in strips called ahapua'a. They started from the top of the mountain all the way to the sea. The idea being that each ahapua'a was subsistent. There used to be a picture in elementary schools here of how this worked, great visual. Anyway, typically a water source would run down through the strip of land. Water for drinking would be collected at the top, while bathing would occur further down the stream, followed by washing of things and then dumping stuff out to see that needed to go that way. The village would typically be at the beach and the social strata would seem to increase as we head north. Meaning that the higher up in the ahapua'a one lived, the higher your status.

This was an undoubtably idealized version of how it ran, but it gives you an idea of what you might want to consider.

Another thing I remembered was that Hawaii has things called places of refuge. In my town, we have a small island just off the shore in Hilo Bay called Coconut island. Today, there's a bridge that goes over so families can picnic and such, but in times past it was an island of refuge. Apparently when one broke the law or a kapu you could escape the consequences by fleeing to a place of refuge. In this case, the island was said to be surrounded by shark infested waters so if you made it there alive, you were safe. Usually, it seems that you could leave the place of refuge when whoever was after you gave up or so. I'm sure there is more to it than that, but that's what I remember. A twist on the traditional sanctuary I suppose.

The great thing about living on the island of Hawaii, is the number of environments that can be found here. We have desert, tropical jungle, mountains, and even snow. So it could provide different kinds of adventrues. With the volcano active here, you usually here things about Pele, the goddess of fire. Its been a while, but I remember when I was a kid seeing these things called Pele's Hair and Pele's Tears. Basically these were small pieces of glass that rained down. Pele's Hair looked like hair, but was hard to see and if you stepped on it, you slice yourself. Pele's Tears were like small hail stones, the size of marbles, but they were also sharp and you could get hurt from those as well. Of all the deities, Pele has the most stories I know of. How she turned a group of people into a petrified forest, how she spared a home by having lava flow around it. It is said that you can't take a rock off this island without asking permission from her or you will get bad luck.

Perhaps something for flavor would be land surfing? There is a story about how Pele competed with a man who boasted that he was better at it than she was. For mortals, land surfing involved a lot of grass going down a hill. For Pele, it meant travelling on lava.

Well, I think that's it for now. I hope this is of some use. If not, just let me know. Or if there is something you'd rather hear about instead. I'm just typing stuff that I think might help.

 

[Tonguez]

SO I assume Turanil, myself and Kankichi are 'in' on the project? Any others.

Names
The languages of Polynesia have a regular system of open syllables (ever syllable is made up of a constanant + vowel and all syllables end in a vowel) eg Ha- Wa-I'i, Sa-Mo-A and To-NGa.
*ng is a special case and to be considered a single constant (pronounced as in Singer)
Of course some dialects do not use certain sounds and this is marked using the glotal stop ' (eg Tahitian Ra'i = Rangi =Lani) and in some letters are exchanged (such as the Hawaiian use of K for T (eg Kahiki = Tahiti, Kahuna = Tohunga).
Anyway there are just over 50 such syllables counting all Polynesian languages which are combined to make all words.

ergo for gaming purpuses I propose that all syllables are listed and readers invited to combine them to their hearts content. We can also provide some base words with meanings to help eg

Tama (Ta+Ma) = Male, boy (Kama);
Tu =Stand (Ku);
Rangi (Ra+ Ngi)= Sky (Langi, Lani, Rani, Ra'i)
Name =>Tamaturangi (Kamakulani)
Name=>Tamarani (Tamara'i,Kamalani)
Name=>Turangi (Tura'i,Kulani)
Name=>Lani (Rangi, Langi)
*************************************************************
Land surfing would be cool and we probably need an entry on common pasttimes of Polynesia, as well as Festivals etc as part of the daily life section

Anyway back to the PDF. the ideas being shared here are great but we do need to start getting them structured along the lines of the contents suggested by Turanil

The first section reads

Polynesian World in D&D-- Introduction which is an overview of the Polynesian world from a gaming perspective.
-- Glossary of terms: Mana, Tahua, etc. and explanation of important concepts.
-- Daily life and social structure of the Polynesian people.
-- List of Polynesian names (cannot be missed!)
-- The natural and supernatural Polynesian world (spirits, etc.).
-- About magic and psionics in a D&D Polynesia
-- Weird and magical stuff: corpses full of mana in their bones, living statues and monoliths, and else.
-- Description of a typical temple, of typical habitations, a boat, whatever.

I can do the Social Structure, Supernatural world and language stuff
We need everyone to work on glossary of terms (since as a speaker of a polynesian language there are terms which I think are normal which may not be to others). We also need everyone to keep up the submissions on weird and magical stuff and to submit descriptions of 'a typical ___'.

The place of undead needs to be considered Ghost stories are very common in Polynesia, but there isn't really much on corporeal undead (so no vampires etc) However there are some stories which might be interpreted as corporeal undead such as the Night Marchers mentioned and another story about a mans father who came back to challenge him to a duel. The 'undead' is describes as having a skin that seemed to hang in loose folds as if too big for the body. He wasn't recognised until after the duel. Corpses which fly through the air in funeral shrouds are more melanesian than polynesian (and may be Ghost anyway)
Another strange story tells of a fish they was found with the face of a recently deceased man and which gave the fisherman a warning

As to Scope
I'd like to see this be generalised 'Mythic Polynesia' with small writeups on the differences between the main groups (Tonga, Samoa, Tahiti-Rarotonga (a single unit), Marquesas, Hawaii, Rapanui (Easter Island) and Aotearoa (New Zealand)).
Reference should also be made to Fiji and from there the rest of Oceania. It is also here that reference to places beyond the Great Ocean (Moananui) need to be made in order to tie things to existing DnD settings.

NB there is oral record of the Polynesian discovery of Antarctica (by 'uiterangiora who named the place Piateao - the world of Arrowroot powder) and also contact with South America (source of the Sweet Potato. Polynesian artifacts have also been found in Mexico)

 

[Tonguez]

Occupations: This List originates in the Marquesas but applies generally (with linguistic change)

Haka-iki (Ariki, Ali'i): Ruling Chief

Tau'a (Taura, kaula), the inspirational priests whose functions were to care for the remains of the chiefs and priests deposited at temples, preside at tribal religious ceremonies, and discover and speak the will of the gods

Tuhuna O'ono or tuhuka o'oko --Ceremonial priest skilled in the four named branches of learning (legends, genealgoies, pule, chants). a chanter who presided over lesser religious ceremonies

Toa (koa)war leaders were highly respected in civil affairs as well.

Tuhuna (Kahuna, Tohunga) - Experts

Tuhuna Hakatu Fa'e, or Tuhuka Atu Ha'e--master housebuilder.

Tuhuna Hakatu Paepae, or Tuhuna Upeupe Paepae--master platform builder.

Tuhuna Tekai Ke'a--Stone cutter, one skilled in cutting stones for platforms, houses, sacred places, and feast places.

Tuhuna Ua Ma--Digger of ma pits.

Tuhuna Pehe--Professional skilled in making string figures and applying them in decoration such as ornamental sennit designs.

Tuhuna Ha'a Tiki Tiki--Skilled wood carver.

Tuhuna Keana Moena--Skilled mat maker.

Tuhuna Tekai Ke'a Tuki Popoi--Maker of pounders for popoi (breadfruit paste).

Tuhuna Ko'oka--Maker of popoi dishes.

Tuhuna A'aka Pahu--Drum-maker.

Tuhuna Ta'ai Vaka--Master canoe carver.

Tuhuna Ta'ai Tiki--Image carver.

Tuhuna Ta'ai, or Tekai Papa, or Tuhuka Tao--Coffin carver.

Tuhuna Ta'ai Tokotoko Pio'o--Staff maker.

Tuhuna Titi Ouoho--Maker of hair ornaments.

Tuhuna Tutu Tapa, Tutu Kahu--Skilled bark-cloth maker.

Tuhuna A'aka Tahi'i--Fan maker.

Tuhuna Hana Pa'a Kea--Maker of tortoise-shell crowns.

Tuhuna Pu Taiana--Maker of pu taiana ear ornaments.

Tuhuna Tehe--He who cuts the foreskin.

Tuhuna Fainu, Tuhuna Apau, or Tuhuka Haika--Medical expert.

Tuhuna Nati Kaha--One skilled in witchcraft.

Tuhuna Patu Tiki--Master tattooer.

Tuhuna Ava-ika--Master fisher.

Tuhuna Upena--Master netmaker, the same as the Tuhuna Ava-ika.

Tuhuna Ha'akekai--One learned in legends*.

Tuhuna Mata Tetau--One learned in genealogies*.

Tuhuna Pu'e-- Ceremonial priest who taught and chanted the pule*.

Tuhuna Vavana--Ceremonial priest who taught and chanted the Vavana*.

Tuhuna Nato--He who composed nato chants. (Similarly with other kinds of chants: Tuhuna Pope, Tuhuna Rari, etc.)

*these are the four named branches of learning mastered by the Tuhuna O'ono (Priest)

Now some of these can just be left as 'Experts' but could any of them be useful as a 'class' (base or prestige) and what are their correspondences in the standard DnD classes? (Cleric, Druid, Bard, Shaman etc)

 

[Turanil]

I have downloaded this French game about Tahiti legends, and I have a book with many anecdotes and stories about Tahiti legends, mysticism, etc. I will read them both and write down everything that looks interesting.

Now some of these can just be left as 'Experts' but could any of them be useful as a 'class' (base or prestige) and what are their correspondences in the standard DnD classes? (Cleric, Druid, Bard, Shaman etc)

My opinion is that we will have to come up with Polynesian names and short background descriptions for the character classes. Names like bard and druid (celtic like), cleric (western priest), monk (Shaolin-like) are indeed totally inappropriate. We need Polynesian-sounding names for them, that probably won't be accurate but should be okay for a d20 fantasy game. Something like Kahuna for druid and Tuhuna for cleric, etc. Then, barbarian will have to be renamed likewise, and also maybe others. Nonetheless, I prefer to let you choose what you seem to be the most relevant names.

In fact I envision a whole lot of new classes, but instead of creating everything anew I was considering writing variants in the same format as Unearthed Arcana. Note that since Unearthed Arcana is OGC, I think that many variants can be directly copied:
- Barbarian: no raging barbarian I guess, but "totem warriors" (p.48 totem barbarian).
- Bard: divine bard variant (p.50).
- Cleric: martial existing cleric probably inapprorpiate, so use Cloistered Cleric variant (p.50) with approrpiate selection of skills.
- Fighter: no heavy armor I guess, so new variant based on the Thug variant (p.51)
- Rogue: no urban rogue obviously (no open-locks, etc.), but wilderness rogue variant (p.56).
ETC.

Prestige Classes: I have absolutely no idea. My suggestion is that if there are archetypal Polynesian characters (Maybe a leader of men and chieftain for example), to describe them and then see if existing classes could fit, and probably tweak one or two. I suggest we have guidelines indicating how the core prestige classes may fit or not, plus we have one or two (no more) original prestige classes. But they really need to be emblematic of the Polynesian world (such as maybe a sailor with seer abilities to find his way across the ocean?).

 

[XCorvis]

I have downloaded this French game about Tahiti legends, and I have a book with many anecdotes and stories about Tahiti legends, mysticism, etc. I will read them both and write down everything that looks interesting.

Careful with the game book about Tahiti - you don't want to grab too much. If you're working from a regular book it's probably OK, as most of the legends and history would pre-date copyright, but the gaming book has a specific interpretation, and it's probably not OGL.

 

[Turanil]

Careful with the game book about Tahiti - you don't want to grab too much. If you're working from a regular book it's probably OK, as most of the legends and history would pre-date copyright, but the gaming book has a specific interpretation, and it's probably not OGL.

You are right. However I have no intent of copypasting. I just plan to list terms and ideas, not translate word for word. Tonguez will get a look at what I collected, and using his own knowledge on the Polynesian subjects will see what info will be useful to write original fantasy Polynesian stuff.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: I have gone quickly through this game, getting what looked to me the useful info. My first overall impression, is that this fantasy-Polynesian game should be fantasy / D&D rather than "historical". Because the French game is "historical", which is great for learning about Tahiti, its inhabitants and culture, but could quickly make for a boring game.

Otherwise, it seems that many plot hooks for Polynesian adventures include spirits and taboos. Also, I begin to see three classes that could be added to this setting:
-- Ari'i: This is a character class of noble. I have one or two good OGC classes that could probably be used. What I noticed is that nobles are so often mentioned, that there probably must be a class for them. Core class rather than prestige class, since you are born a noble, no other way around.
-- Orou: A prestige class of sorcerer dealing with evil spirits; summoning spirits that will possess items or creatures; doing sympathetic magic (using dolls to cast enchantment from a distance); etc.
-- <Navigator>: A sailor and seer that can lead people across the oceans toward islands lost in the immensity of the Pacific.

 

[Turanil]

I have a question concerning -- well how to say that -- modern sensibilities and what is really useful to a D&D game.

So: I am reading the Legendes Tahitiennes game and collecting the info in it (that I will turn into an English summarized text). There are several aspects of the ancient Tahitian society that our modern culture would frown upon. Some of them, I guess, should be kept as they add to a D&D game; but others I would like to know if we rather deliberately forget about them in describing a d20 Polynesian-fantasy setting. Examples:

-- Slaves (from war) are kept to be sacrificed to the gods. Obviously we can keep that as an interesting and much traditional plot device of D&D games.
-- Polynesian societies (at least in Tahiti) allow great sexual freedom. This aspect, IMO, certainly brings nothing to the game, so we can probably forget to mention it.
-- Ariori (bards) have total sexual freedom but are forbidden to sire children, so when they do the babies are killed.. As above, I think it doesn't bring anything to the game and could be forgotten.
-- Except for noble women, all women are considered inferior to men. We can certainly tell that Polynesian women traditionally won't be warriors, fishers, etc., but I don't see it a good idea to make them socially inferior and subject to many taboos.

So: what do you think?