Hawaiian Flavor type game?

[MonsterMash]

This is a really great thread - slightly surprised none of the Kiwi's have done anything on Maori culture, or at least not mentioned any, but I know this is more specific to the central pacific polynesians.

 

[Tonguez]

Tanguru (alt.Paladin)
Amongts the many atua of Hawaiki are the beast-spirits – Shark, Crocodile, Lizard, Wild Boar, Eagle– Spirits that hunger to devour the souls of mortals. The Tanguru are the chosen vessel of the beast-spirits, leaders in warfare the Tanguru agree to carry the beast-spirits into battle and in return the beasts imbues the Tanguru with a part of their power.

Requirements:
Alignment: Lawful (Tanguru require great discipline to control the Beast)
Base Attack Bonus: +3.
Knowledge (religion): 3 ranks.
Knowledge (Tactics): 5 ranks.
Feats: Cleave
Must have lead troops in combat

Tanguru Code: Tanguru are war leaders and must continuouisly prove their worth in battle. Tanguru must be honourable, courageous and unshakable. They must serve the Beast-spirit and feed its hunger. Should they fail the Beast will destroy them!

BAb - as Paladin
Saves - as Paladin

TANGURU Class Abilities
1 Detect Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Spells, +1 level of existing divine spellcasting
2 Aura of Courage, Smite Enemy, Divine Health
3 Divine health, Frightful Presence
4 Remove Disease, Aura of Power, +1 level of existing divine spellcasting
5 Totem Companion, Leadership Feat
6 Smite Enemy 2/day, Aura of Power
7 Remove disease 2/week, +1 level of existing divine spellcasting
8 Smite evil 3/day, Aura of Power
9 Aura of Power, +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
10 Remove disease 3/week, Smite evil 4/day, Aura of Power

All Class Abilities are as Paladin except:

Smite Enemy - When the Tanguru smites an enemy he opens a conduit for the Beast-spirit to feed, the Beast Spirits care not about the moral character of their victims and thus it is not limited to Evil creatures.
Frightful Presence: The Tanguru is able to manifest the terrible power of the Beast-spirit within them thus unsettling his enemies
Totem Companion The Beast Spirit sends one of its children as a companion to the Tanguru. The Totem Creature is unusually strong and intelligent (use Paladin Mount table)
Leadership: The Tanguru can take the feat at Level 5 and gains a +1 bonus to Leadership score
Aura of Power The Beast Spirit displays its power affecting the Tanguru and all allies within 60 feet. Allies receive a +1 bonus to the manifest ability rising by +1 at levels 6, 8, 9, 10 (to +5). The Tanguru can determine which abilities to boost as follows:
Aura of Prowess Grants a bonus to Melee Attacks
Aura of Strength Grants a bonus to Damage rolls
Aura of Resilience Grants a bonus to Saves
Aura of Protection Grants a bonus to AC
Aura of Resistance Allies gain damage reduction equal to the Aura bonus
Aura of Competence Grants a bonus to all checks for a selected ablity score (eg Dexterity, Strength, Wisdom etc)
Aura of Urgency Speed of allies increased by 5 ft x bonus (eg at level 8 +3 bonus grants speed +15 ft)

 

[Tonguez]

First is the Tanguru okay or does it need to be expanded (possibly even to 20 levels?).
As you can probably tell it combines both Paladin abilities and Auras similar to those of the Marshal (MiniHB) to better reflect its concept as the chosen Champion of a hungry war god

I suggest the Divine bard variant from UA. Genealogists? I believed they were not the same as those wandering bards called Arioi (at least from what I do read in Legendes of Tahiti netbook).

Clerics: for physical/warlike deities. They are limited to light armor but gain 4 skill points per level instead of 2. Cloistered Clerics: for sage typs, and priests of peaceful deities.

Looking at the cloistured cleric with its 'Lore' ability I think that with a good cha score it would actualy make a better version of the 'Geneologist - Speaker' than the Bard would. This is the ceremonial priest (like the tuhuna o'ono mentioned in the Marquesas list) who has mastered the four areas of knowledge: legends, genealogies, rituals, chants and serve as judges and speakers for the Ari'i (btw much like the Celtic Druid did).

So yeah leave Bards to the Arioi and make Geneologist a cloistured cleric

I suggest the druid class being a sort of mistrust spellcaster who is found primarily among non-human races (see elves and menehune). Yet, outcasts humans sometimes take this class. Then, some of them eventually get the Runuku/Makoi prestige class of evil sorcerer. This would fit the concept of sorcerers in a world where arcane magic doesn't exist. Also, it would be clear that the class, despite being available, would not belong to the regular social structure of the Polynesian society.

Good suggestion and fits well with the 'ethos'. Making Runuku a prestige class works well too as according to tradition many who become 'evil scorcerers' were those who entered the houses of learning but failed to become tohunga (instead following the Dark Side of the force)

On the other hand, while I think the Psychic Warrior doesn't fit for the Lua (as described in the article), I am wondering if it would not fit for nobles supposed to be blessed with a lot of Mana?

Yes I think it could.
I also took a look at the Aspect of Nature Wildshape variant in UA and many of these could also be used to model the supernatural abilities of nobles with great mana (increase strength, edurance and agility were common, as was the ability to fly, to change shape and many other weird and wonderful powers were possible).

I have read people (here on Enworld) saying the UA expert is weak to play (so DMG expert npc is even worse). So, what about the Expert class from UA that in addition gets spell progression as paladins/rangers?

yep works for me. It will need a carefully constructed spell lst however so as to be flavourful and balanced.

So yes go ahead

 

[Kesh]

Shadowrun in 94 I think it was came out with a very richly described Hawaii for their world. It was more fantasy in flavor then the usual dark future of Shadowrun.

It was called Paradise Lost, and I'm still waiting for it to come out in PDF.

 

[XCorvis]

Are folks planning on releasing this as an OGL product, or in any sort of "official" way? Or is this going to stay a message-board writeup? If it's going to be OGL, people need to stop talking about UA and MiniHB. MiniHB has no OGL content, so from a designer's point of view it doesn't exist. I don't know if UA has any OGL content, but I'm sure what it has is limited - someone better informed can pipe up about that.

To summarize: Stop borrowing stuff from other books. Just use the SRD, or you'll end up re-writing it later.

 

[Tonguez]

UA is in the SRD. MiniHB isn't but its not being directly referenced (just the 'similar concept') but yes this is heading for PDF so I agree we need to make sure not cross copyright lines...

 

[Turanil]

Tanguru (alt.Paladin)
Amongts the many atua of Hawaiki are the beast-spirits – Shark, Crocodile, Lizard, Wild Boar, Eagle– Spirits that hunger to devour the souls of mortals. The Tanguru are the chosen vessel of the beast-spirits, leaders in warfare the Tanguru agree to carry the beast-spirits into battle and in return the beasts imbues the Tanguru with a part of their power.

Tanguru Code: Tanguru are war leaders and must continuouisly prove their worth in battle. Tanguru must be honourable, courageous and unshakable. They must serve the Beast-spirit and feed its hunger. Should they fail the Beast will destroy them!

I like this concept. However, I would like to know why it is a "paladin" variant. Paladins fight for good and justice, and wouldn't associate with spirits that hunger to devour souls. I see this more as fierce war leaders with supernatural powers. So maybe the Detect Evil, Lay-on-hands, and Remove didease abilities are not appropriate?

Otherwise, I would like to see that Tanguru who fell prey to their beast spirits become ravening shapechangers. I especially like to think about were-crocodiles and were-sharks! They would be great in a campaign (as foes).

I think it is okay as a 10 level prestige class, but I don't mind it to be a core 20 levels class. As I see it now, it would be great to have islands of savage Polynesians who have Totem Barbarians, Tanguru (the leaders), and Druids, all worshipping some beast-spirit...


In any case, okay, I will begin to work on the classes, as has been outlined above. It will take time however, as I have many other things to do.

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This is the ceremonial priest (like the tuhuna o'ono mentioned in the Marquesas list) who has mastered the four areas of knowledge: legends, genealogies, rituals, chants and serve as judges and speakers for the Ari'i (btw much like the Celtic Druid did).

The following comment is not related to the d20 Project, but I would like to mention some parallels. The Celtic culture seems to have roots far back in antique India (so the concept of Indo-Aryan, where Aryans would have colonized ancient India was false, as is today recognized, but instead western culture had roots in India culture from millenaries ago). Now, from what I read, Polynesian people would have come from Asia in the first place. Seeing some interesting parallels between the Celts and the Polynesians, I am tempted to see them coming from a same cultural origin in the dawn of times, not in India, but in the continent that was sunken under water and is now the China Sea. But it's just a conjecture.

 

[Tonguez]

I like this concept. However, I would like to know why it is a "paladin" variant. Paladins fight for good and justice, and wouldn't associate with spirits that hunger to devour souls. I see this more as fierce war leaders with supernatural powers. So maybe the Detect Evil, Lay-on-hands, and Remove didease abilities are not appropriate?

Otherwise, I would like to see that Tanguru who fell prey to their beast spirits become ravening shapechangers. I especially like to think about were-crocodiles and were-sharks! They would be great in a campaign (as foes).

I understand your point that this need not be a Paladin variant and I think the main reason is because I was looking at the standard paladin class and tihinking how it could be adapted to a Polynesian seting. Also UA features both the Paladin of Tyranny and P~ of Slaughter as Evil versions of the Paladin, showing that Paladin can be envisaged that don't "fight for good and justice". Also the beast spirits aren't in any way evil just 'dangerous' (and reflect a different understanding of good and evil in Polynesian culture)
Anyway I accept that some of the class abilities might not be approaporiate (like Detect Evil) and after looking through the UA Paladin variants might adopt some of their abilities (eg Debilitating Aura) instead.

The Issue of Alignment
Polynesia did not have a well developed notion of good and evil and as such the standard alignment system may not be appropriate. Neither did goo and evil apply to the Spirits for in Polynesia all spirits were dangerous but some could be appeased and even 'managed' so that they provided benefit to mortals. The only spirits one could rely on were your own ancestors.

Mortals were also viewed in much the same way and as such practices which other societies considered evil might be acceptable in Polynesia (or unacceptable but tolerated in some cases eg wonton cannibalism (as opposed to ritual cannibalism).
Far more important in Polynesian thought were notions of Social Norm somewhat conforming to Lawful (adhering to social norm for the benefit of the group) and Chaotic (challenging the norm,unpredictable , disrupting the group) but again lacking moral force so for instance the great culture hero Maui was chaotic whereas the other great hero Tafaki was Lawful

Anyway if Alignment is use only the Law - Chaos Axis ought to be used (and Good and Evil dropped)

The following comment is not related to the d20 Project, but I would like to mention some parallels. The Celtic culture seems to have roots far back in antique India (so the concept of Indo-Aryan, where Aryans would have colonized ancient India was false, as is today recognized, but instead western culture had roots in India culture from millenaries ago). Now, from what I read, Polynesian people would have come from Asia in the first place. Seeing some interesting parallels between the Celts and the Polynesians, I am tempted to see them coming from a same cultural origin in the dawn of times, not in India, but in the continent that was sunken under water and is now the China Sea. But it's just a conjecture.

Interestingly it has been proposed that prior to their arrival in SE Asia (some of) the ancestors of the Polynesians also originated in the area of the Aryans. Speculation is that Sindhava is the origin of the name Havaiki and that the place name Irihia (mentioned in some old legends) refers to Iria (Iran).

Another possibility (which might confirm your sunken continent theory) is that the proto-polyensian 'Austronesean' peoples originated in Sundaland, the submerged landbridge which is now the Indonesian islands.
(ps the Austronesian peoples are the most widley dispersed of prehistoric peoples who settled Polynesia (reaching South America) back across SE Asia and thence to Madagascar (the Malagasy people speak an Austronesian dialect). That some may have traveled from Africa north to Europe isn't too farfetched

Heres a link to a book called Aryan Maori first published in 1885 which discussed the Aryan-Maori link.

 

[XCorvis]

UA is in the SRD. MiniHB isn't but its not being directly referenced (just the 'similar concept') but yes this is heading for PDF so I agree we need to make sure not cross copyright lines...

I meant to type AU (or AE), but you get the idea...

 

[Kesh]

Are folks planning on releasing this as an OGL product, or in any sort of "official" way? Or is this going to stay a message-board writeup? If it's going to be OGL, people need to stop talking about UA and MiniHB. MiniHB has no OGL content, so from a designer's point of view it doesn't exist. I don't know if UA has any OGL content, but I'm sure what it has is limited - someone better informed can pipe up about that.

To summarize: Stop borrowing stuff from other books. Just use the SRD, or you'll end up re-writing it later.

Unearthed Arcana is almost entirely OGL. A few things (like IP related prestige classes and specific names) are not open, but I'd say 95% of the book is.