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Hawkeye Disney+ Limited Series (spoilers)

This is what one Easter Egg article had to say about the watch:

The true goal of the Tracksuit Mafia's raid is to swipe a mysterious watch pulled from the Avengers Compound. The nature of the piece isn't obvious, but the red face would imply Stark tech - hence the high value. Hawkeye certainly wouldn't be the first MCU story where a piece of Stark technology served as a MacGuffin. The label reads "Avengers Compound - Lot 268." The villain in Avengers #268? A certain Kang the Conqueror...

And the Jack Duquesne character is also named as the villain Swordsman in some cast listings. And we have seen cast listings for previous shows spoil character names before they are named that verbally in an episode. So while he probably killed his uncle, he may not be the Big Bad, and is just working for him or her. Remember all the rumors of Kingpin showing up in this series.
 

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Ryujin

Legend
This is what one Easter Egg article had to say about the watch:



And the Jack Duquesne character is also named as the villain Swordsman in some cast listings. And we have seen cast listings for previous shows spoil character names before they are named that verbally in an episode. So while he probably killed his uncle, he may not be the Big Bad, and is just working for him or her. Remember all the rumors of Kingpin showing up in this series.
I'm wondering how deep into the comic lore they're going to go with Jack Duquesne. It could get very interesting.
 

I like the fact there's clearly some differences in the levels of Kate's skills in her various areas of expertise. She's a award winning in all of them, but her archery and gymnastics are clearly above her martial arts (though some of that is probably simply that she's a woman fighting larger men in a situation outside competition and practice, and she's not used to that). The fencing is going to probably be next to useless, given its modern Western fencing (if she did saber, it might be vaguely useful, but only vaguely. Foil and epee are pretty much worthless for any real combat purpose).

That said, she was good enough to recognize the Swordsman was throwing the fencing match.
 

Ryujin

Legend
I like the fact there's clearly some differences in the levels of Kate's skills in her various areas of expertise. She's a award winning in all of them, but her archery and gymnastics are clearly above her martial arts (though some of that is probably simply that she's a woman fighting larger men in a situation outside competition and practice, and she's not used to that). The fencing is going to probably be next to useless, given its modern Western fencing (if she did saber, it might be vaguely useful, but only vaguely. Foil and epee are pretty much worthless for any real combat purpose).

That said, she was good enough to recognize the Swordsman was throwing the fencing match.
Most regular folks don't understand that modern fencing is a game to be won. They think that it's a combat skill. It will likely show up at some point.

Even with Martial Arts not being her best skill, they showed her to be able to improvise. Like when she slammed Huge Tracksuit Mafia guy into the hood of the car. He was too tough to take on directly, but making him eat a Toyota was effective.
 

Staffan

Legend
The idea is she has practiced forever but has no real experience. Her martial arts is all tournament, her archery all ranges….nothing in real combat situations. She’s also well off and so a bit naive about the world.
Yeah, the way it looks is that she has a very high level of... I guess you could call it "first step skill". Like, oh, I happen to be dressed like the staff, so I'll grab a tray and follow the servers into the place where the shenanigans are happening... but I don't have a plan for dealing with being spotted. Or naughty word, my place is on fire, I guess I'll shoot the fire extinguisher... and I hit, and the high pressure jet makes the extinguisher fly around all over the place and out the window, without putting the fire out.

An experienced character like Clint, on the other hand, has a high level of "Rube Goldberg skill". It's not just "hitting thing with arrow", it's "hit thing with arrow so it gets knocked into that other thing which will fall down and hit that guy on his head." And not just when it comes to archery – he is a trained SHIELD agent after all, so he has lots of skill in infiltration, martial arts, all sorts of spycraft, and so on. He looked like he had the Tracksuit Mafia thing well in hand until Kate dropped by, for example.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Watched it early this morning and really like the tone. I like that it is more lowkey than the other shows have been, it suits the Persona of the MCU Hawkeye - part of the Marvel genius has been the ability to cross genres and tell different stories despite them all having the same obligatory super tropes.

I like that they gave us young Kates perspective on the Battle of New York and her subsequent development and portrayal of dumb bravado - a self assured rich kid who believes she too can do anything and who at her most traumatic moment was inspired by "the guy with a bow". Clint proves that even normal people can be superheroes, so even moreso a princess like Kate should be able to be a superhero too.

I also really liked the Rogers musical and would love to see it expanded as a real world show! (It did drag on a bit, but oh well it was fun even with Clints cringe)

"I could do this all day"

The first two episodes were good. The song and dance did play on longer than necessary but if I wrote that I would use all of it too. The chat about branding was funny on many levels and I assume that was intentional. My only complaint so far is with Kate Bishop. This is my introduction to her character and I find her 50% enjoyably funny and 50% annoyingly dumb. That does give her room to grow and I remember being an idiot when I was 22 but some of the choices she makes in the first episode are baffling.

I was wrong a lot when trying to guess the outcomes/plot points of previous Marvel shows so I'll hold off on that.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I found some of the themes made it hard to watch, but it is a deeply personal thing. The whole thing is actually fun! I love Tony Dalton! There is a cute father -daughter chemistry going on. And I love the reality ensues for Kate and how she is making dumb mistakes and how she will eventually grow into a hero.
 

DeviousQuail

Adventurer
How do you find her choices baffling? She's a self-assured kid who thinks she's got the chops to be a superhero. It makes sense to me.
For me it was the choice to engage with the tracksuits after she knocked out one guy and guaranteed the civilians escape (ignoring why she would put on the ronin costume and how she managed it in the 90 seconds she had before the bad guys said they were leaving). Her infiltration beforehand was fine but her whole train of thought was to spy on Armaund and Jack. The Mafia guys have nothing to do with that. They were stealing from a black market auction. She already did the hero thing so just leave and try to get in contact with her mom and see if Jack is there. Asking him why he was at a black market auction in front of her mother seems like a good play.

Instead after escaping the mafia she decides to run around New York in a vigilante costume and break into Armaund's place to do what? Find evidence of what Armaund is up to? Like anything would be sitting around, with no security systems at all, and no one in the place.

Climbing on the skylight only to fall through at the end of episode 2 was also dumb if only because why climb on it? Where was she trying to get to? Maybe if they showed her approach we would know but all I can assume is she thought climbing over the skylight was better than moving around it.
 

MarkB

Legend
For me it was the choice to engage with the tracksuits after she knocked out one guy and guaranteed the civilians escape (ignoring why she would put on the ronin costume and how she managed it in the 90 seconds she had before the bad guys said they were leaving). Her infiltration beforehand was fine but her whole train of thought was to spy on Armaund and Jack. The Mafia guys have nothing to do with that. They were stealing from a black market auction. She already did the hero thing so just leave and try to get in contact with her mom and see if Jack is there. Asking him why he was at a black market auction in front of her mother seems like a good play.
They were Bad Guys. They had a Nefarious Plan. In her mind, it was her job to make sure they failed.
Instead after escaping the mafia she decides to run around New York in a vigilante costume and break into Armaund's place to do what? Find evidence of what Armaund is up to? Like anything would be sitting around, with no security systems at all, and no one in the place.
She works for a security company, she's middling-okay with lockpicks, she has special security-company apps on her phone. It doesn't need to be sitting out in plain sight for her to think she has a shot at getting to it.
Climbing on the skylight only to fall through at the end of episode 2 was also dumb if only because why climb on it? Where was she trying to get to? Maybe if they showed her approach we would know but all I can assume is she thought climbing over the skylight was better than moving around it.
It's a point of entry. Maybe she was trying to find a way to open it.
 

DeviousQuail

Adventurer
They were Bad Guys. They had a Nefarious Plan. In her mind, it was her job to make sure they failed.

She works for a security company, she's middling-okay with lockpicks, she has special security-company apps on her phone. It doesn't need to be sitting out in plain sight for her to think she has a shot at getting to it.

It's a point of entry. Maybe she was trying to find a way to open it.
1) And I would argue that was a dumb thing to do. It sets the bar for her growth as a character but it's a low bar.

2) She has all those things but that doesn't change the fact that people could have been there and unless her phone can turn off Armaund's security system I'm not sure what else she's supposed to do.

3) They needed to show it then. Because it just sounds like she's climbing over it. Everyone stops to listen and then she full body falls through.

Things like sneaking into the auction, shooting the fire hydrant, going to work even though Clint tells her not to are much better signs of her youth and naivete.
 

Ryujin

Legend
They were Bad Guys. They had a Nefarious Plan. In her mind, it was her job to make sure they failed.

She works for a security company, she's middling-okay with lockpicks, she has special security-company apps on her phone. It doesn't need to be sitting out in plain sight for her to think she has a shot at getting to it.

It's a point of entry. Maybe she was trying to find a way to open it.
Or maybe she was leaning on it, trying to see what was going on below?
 


Most regular folks don't understand that modern fencing is a game to be won. They think that it's a combat skill. It will likely show up at some point.

True.

Even with Martial Arts not being her best skill, they showed her to be able to improvise. Like when she slammed Huge Tracksuit Mafia guy into the hood of the car. He was too tough to take on directly, but making him eat a Toyota was effective.

Sure. That she was able to handle them all shows she's pretty good--just not in the weight class of her acrobatics and archery.
 

Ryujin

Legend
True.



Sure. That she was able to handle them all shows she's pretty good--just not in the weight class of her acrobatics and archery.
I think that "weight class" is the operative term, for sure. Gymnasts tend to be smaller. It's a rotational mass thing. Archery requires some very specific muscles and, at a set draw weight for a recurve bow, any muscle mass beyond draw and hold is pretty extraneous. (We're not talking 150 pound English Longbow here. I'm thinking about the Lars Anderson videos in which he's crowing about archery combat skills, while half-drawing a 25 pound child's bow.) When it comes to being able to physically move bad guys, however, a certain amount of mass is beneficial.
 

Rune

Once A Fool
Regarding her decision-making: it’s worth remembering that, as her mother pointed out in episode 1, Kate Bishop has thus far not had to face major consequences for her mistakes.
 
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