Hazing Ritual

pawsplay

Hero
Have you ever noticed that when a new class is introduced, such as the Hexblade, the same book never has a lot of expansion material for the class? Instead, the feats they want have to be spread out among a variety of other new, largely unrelated books. Thus, if a new class "takes off" in popularity, it becomes more powerful over time. But a class that makes a bad first impression will never get a second chance.

At this point, core classes can do anything... bards can use their bardic magic on the undead, wizards can have high hit points and heal themselves, monks can stab people with their elbows, rogues can spring attack and attack with two weapons, sorcerers can cast cure spells, druids can spontaneously cure, and clerics can use turn undead to power metamagics.

My prediction for Complete Champion... paladins will have access to feats that allow them to detect and smite chaotic, feats that allow smites to overcome various DR types, and feats that allow you to use lay on hands to do other things. There will be feats that allow turn undead to imbue arrows with anti-undead power. Clerics will receive prestige classes for non-deity clerics of various alignments and philosophies.
 

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My personal magic 8-ball suggests you're on to something here. There are so many options for the core classes that I'm beginning to wonder if there is such a thing as too much flexibility.
 

When you said hazing, it made me realize that EN World is like a frat house for gaming material. Some people are really hard on the froshes, and everybody else is *really* hard on them.
 

For myself, my suspition (sp?) for Complete Champion is a base class for the Cloistered Cleric called the 'Priest' simiar to what Complete Adventurer's Scout class did for the Wilderness Rogue.

cheers,
--N
 

blargney the second said:
When you said hazing, it made me realize that EN World is like a frat house for gaming material. Some people are really hard on the froshes, and everybody else is *really* hard on them.
Not to threadjack but I've heard this term frosh on TV, must be a Canadian thing. I assume it is another name for Freshman.
 

Nyaricus said:
For myself, my suspition (sp?) for Complete Champion is a base class for the Cloistered Cleric called the 'Priest' simiar to what Complete Adventurer's Scout class did for the Wilderness Rogue.
I think it's unlikely that there will be any base classes in it at all.

And if it's anything like what the "Scout class did for the Wilderness Rogue", gods I hope not. :\

Given that it will probably follow in the footsteps of Complete Mage (the first in the same series) rather than say, Complete Divine. . . yeah, I doubt it.


Speaking of Complete Mage, there was some support for Warlocks in there, and a bit of stuff for Wu Jen and Hexblades. So. . . I guess I'm not really seeing the lack of support in the same way you are, pawsplay. After all, I wouldn't say that the Wu Jen or Hexblade are massively popular. So what gives?
 


Aus_Snow said:
Speaking of Complete Mage, there was some support for Warlocks in there, and a bit of stuff for Wu Jen and Hexblades. So. . . I guess I'm not really seeing the lack of support in the same way you are, pawsplay. After all, I wouldn't say that the Wu Jen or Hexblade are massively popular. So what gives?

My point was exactly that; you have to buy the Complete Mage, PHB II, and a couple of other books to have really a complete building kit for the Hexblade. Whereas most of the core classes come with options, and if you buy the Complete Warrior, in which the Hexblade appears, you get basically the "base" material for the Hexblade, but you've got lots of material for rangers, fighters, paladins, and barbarians. Hence, the Hexblade is the frosh. But now Hexblade has been around a while, and if you own enough books, they have a fruitful supply of feats, spells, and options to dip into. Whereas the Spellthief is now the frosh.

The Hexblade is pretty popular; despite some downing on various boards, a lot of people play and enjoy it. I've had a Hexblade in my game, and I wouldn't hesitate to play one. They just seethe with a certain kind of nasty cool.

Wu Jen have a built in audience, with both classic Oriental Adventures fans and orientalists in general digging them. And their built in metamagics can be rather potent for the powergamer in the group.
 

pawsplay said:
My point was exactly that; you have to buy the Complete Mage, PHB II, and a couple of other books to have really a complete building kit for the Hexblade. Whereas most of the core classes come with options, and if you buy the Complete Warrior, in which the Hexblade appears, you get basically the "base" material for the Hexblade, but you've got lots of material for rangers, fighters, paladins, and barbarians. Hence, the Hexblade is the frosh. But now Hexblade has been around a while, and if you own enough books, they have a fruitful supply of feats, spells, and options to dip into. Whereas the Spellthief is now the frosh.
OK. I'm kinda with you on what you're saying now, except for the Fighters getting anything in particular from CW. What, exactly? PHBII is about the only (WotC) source I've seen for actually bumping up Fighters *exclusively*.

I guess the only thing I really haven't seen is the popularity of the Hexblade and Wu Jen, on- or offline. Just personal experience, then.

Though it really makes sense that classes will be given a period of 'testing the waters'. I wonder if Complete Scoundrel will have options specifically for Spellthieves. . .
 

Aus_Snow said:
I think it's unlikely that there will be any base classes in it at all.

And if it's anything like what the "Scout class did for the Wilderness Rogue", gods I hope not. :\

Given that it will probably follow in the footsteps of Complete Mage (the first in the same series) rather than say, Complete Divine. . . yeah, I doubt it.
Well, there have been an abundance of Mage classes lately (Dread Necro, ToM, ToB (to a point), Dragon Magic classes (AFAIK) etc) so it might be likely that they are simply focusing on what they got.

In any case, for myself like many others on these boards, I'm a big fan of the Scout class and how it really brought in a base class which is between the Rogue and Ranger, so I would completely be fine with a base Priest class.

In any case, I suppose I should say it really more of a hope than a suspition, but there's my two coppers :)

cheers,
--N
 

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