He made a perform check of 40?
- Thread starter Ravilah
- Start date
erian_7
First Post
wilder_jw said:
It's actually specified in the rules as an appropriate use of the skill. From the SRD:
TUMBLE (DEX; TRAINED ONLY; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
You can’t use this skill if your speed has been reduced by armor, excess equipment, or loot.
Check: You can land softly when you fall or tumble past opponents. You can also tumble to entertain an audience (as though using the Perform skill). The DCs for various tasks involving the Tumble skill are given on the table below.
Jeff Wilder
First Post
erian_7 said:
Fair enough.
How odd. It's not as if Tumble isn't useful enough already.
UltimaGabe
First Post
wilder_jw said:
True, but I think that the perform use of the Tumble skill is such a small issue that I don't think it really makes any difference. At most, it can get you a few gp in a day- and by the point you're able to get that you have to be such a high level that it doesn't make any difference. I've only seen it used as a Perform skill once in an actual game, and it wasn't for an audience. I don't see everyone pouring ranks into Tumble purely for the performance aspect of it- any ranks that go into it would have gone into it anyway.
Kahuna Burger
First Post
erian_7 said:
My informal house rule (which slightly nerfs this use of tumble and enhances other skills/abilities) is that under the coaching of a bard a character would be able to use any skill or ability that can be reasonably described as a performance, but adjusts it with his or her cha bonus, not the normal stat. In a game where this ability would be very important, I might require the bard to have a specific skill (such as Perform: Choreography) and limit the number of individuals a single bard could be coaching based on their ranks.
Kahuna Burger
HeyLookItsMe
First Post
Taking Twenty
No, Altamont was correct. Taking twenty assumes that you take the action twenty times until you do it perfectly. You thus suffer the consequenses (sp?) for rolls 1-19 when doing so. This is what typically makes taking twenty a far less viable option than taking ten. So in terms of performance, the audience would be watching you do it over and over, as you went, "No no! One more time and I'll get it *just* right." Not quite the same dramatic effect to it. Just like hypothetically you can take twenty on a craft check. You just have to spend 20 times the money and time to do so, and likely wind up with a mess of failures.
No, Altamont was correct. Taking twenty assumes that you take the action twenty times until you do it perfectly. You thus suffer the consequenses (sp?) for rolls 1-19 when doing so. This is what typically makes taking twenty a far less viable option than taking ten. So in terms of performance, the audience would be watching you do it over and over, as you went, "No no! One more time and I'll get it *just* right." Not quite the same dramatic effect to it. Just like hypothetically you can take twenty on a craft check. You just have to spend 20 times the money and time to do so, and likely wind up with a mess of failures.
cyrusduane
First Post
Just quick note about the effect in the campaign of rolling that high.
Personally, I love to have the actions of my players come back into game further down the line. (They love it too) Be it the PCs who start the initial tale or NPC witnesses, there is ample chance of the party hearing the tall tale version of the story in the not-too-distant future.
The players overhear the following in a town 2 days away-
" The guy, I think his name was Cleot, was almost 10 feet tall with muscles the size of Brigar's Anvil. There was at least a dozen bards dressed in eastern silks there playing music while the guy was tumbling all circus-like around the place. He was moving so fast everyone swore it looked like there was 3 of him and he was going under chairs and tables that people were at with out them even being the wiser. Some woman was so suprised by this great man going all about that they dropped their sleeping baby. Before the woman had even noticed that he baby was falling, the Man caught the child and returned it unharmed and still asleep to her husband. I swear, my wife's cousin was there to see it herself! "
(Butcher the Pc's name, stretch the event and your gold. If you prey upon a fear of the common people, in this case child endangerment, it makes the story that more believable. )
Further away, the story might involve a building catching on fire, the PC tumbling into the building, rescuing people and then tumbling right back to performing as if nothing even happened.
Maybe I should start a folklore/tall-tale thread. (How to use them in game to reward and entertain PCs...)
Personally, I love to have the actions of my players come back into game further down the line. (They love it too) Be it the PCs who start the initial tale or NPC witnesses, there is ample chance of the party hearing the tall tale version of the story in the not-too-distant future.
The players overhear the following in a town 2 days away-
" The guy, I think his name was Cleot, was almost 10 feet tall with muscles the size of Brigar's Anvil. There was at least a dozen bards dressed in eastern silks there playing music while the guy was tumbling all circus-like around the place. He was moving so fast everyone swore it looked like there was 3 of him and he was going under chairs and tables that people were at with out them even being the wiser. Some woman was so suprised by this great man going all about that they dropped their sleeping baby. Before the woman had even noticed that he baby was falling, the Man caught the child and returned it unharmed and still asleep to her husband. I swear, my wife's cousin was there to see it herself! "
(Butcher the Pc's name, stretch the event and your gold. If you prey upon a fear of the common people, in this case child endangerment, it makes the story that more believable. )
Further away, the story might involve a building catching on fire, the PC tumbling into the building, rescuing people and then tumbling right back to performing as if nothing even happened.
Maybe I should start a folklore/tall-tale thread. (How to use them in game to reward and entertain PCs...)
Sure it is.Ravilah said:
Level eight, is 11 ranks maximum. I'll assume a dexgterity of 18 base (start with a "mere" 16, and increase it at both 4th and 8th level). That's +15 to the roll right there. Add +2 for competence, +2 for aid another, and +1 for guidance, and that's a +20 modifier. 1d20+20 does max out at 40.
Consider though - for the character that achieved this, at his current level of skill and under those circumstances ... that was the ABSOLUTE BEST PERFORMANCE HE COULD POSSIBLY GIVE ... after all, he rolled a natural 20. He won't be able to beat that performance without mroe training or magical aid ... and even *equalling* it would be a heck of a task.
The Mona Lisa, the ceiling of the sistine Chapel, the works of Monet and Renoir ... his tumbling-to-music performance was on a par with those - at least on par with them! But it'snot permanent; it's ephemeral ... the performance happened, and it's done with ... maybe never to be repeated again. and it's likely the performance of the DECADE, if not more. It's easily on par with the sorts of "superstar" performers who're around, say, 15th level - the people who (like Mozart, for example) perform for Kings.
Play up on it - make the characters (bard and monk) instant, overnight sensations. Have them invited to high society banquets; have nobles and wealthy merchants seeking to hire them, make them the "celebrity fad of the month".
Then embroil them in some high-level intrigue - danger, hidden enemies, and (unlike the usual dungeon-crawl or tomb-exploring) no option to simply draw their swords and throw down; they'll have to be SUBTLE to survive the mess they stumble into ...!
IOW, use that lucky roll to springboard them in an entirely unexpected direction, and let your campaign take a (brief) turn into left field
Well, the god(s) probably won't actually show up in person, but if the PCs have occasion to pray to an appropriate deity, you might want to extend a bit of divine "applause" their way: whack 'em with a bless spell for a full day, or something similarly minor. Maybe send a touch of good luck their way instead (e.g. if they're looking for obscure information on such-and-such a topic, have someone who knows a good, useful clue just coincidentally have been present at the show the PCs put on, and be more-than-usually inclined to be helpful ...).
Then again, yes - a performance-oriented deity *might* just send an Avatar to sit in the audience and enjoy the PC's next few performances. Remember, even a deity of arts (etc) can simply sit quietly and enjoy a good song, admire a scultpure, or even comission a portrait from a talented painter! If you're careful, you can even perhaps drop a clue or two that someone in the audience (who stops by after the show to specifically mention how much s/he enjoyed the performance, say) is, in fact, an Avatar ... that alone can be a nice reward for the characters.
Especially if one or another of those involved in the performance happens to venerate that deity. Just knowing they'v ebeen noticed "in a good way" can be a heck of a reward. ^_^
And heck, said Avatar may even have a job in mind for the adventurers ... especially since such an Avatar would know that the people involved couldn't have done any better, period. ^_^
BSF
Explorer
It's quite possible to achieve a 40 on a check at 8th level, especially with all the spells being cast. Personally, I would not have allowed the Inspire Competence (2 minute duration), Cat's Grace (1 min/level) or the Guidance to have an effect on the longterm performance. Of course, I tend to view performances as 2+ hours in length. But, the important thing is that you were having fun with the game. 
As for taking a 20 with Perform - I wish! All of my PC's performances, without above mentioned buffing, would be in excess of 40. (Higher level character and all that.) Depending on campaign style, allowing a non-combat performance to take 20 may, or may not, be broken. But, if you allow it, remember that a 1st level bard, with maxed out ranks and a 13 Cha is going to get a 25 for the perform check. That is not a bad street corner performance for your NPCs.
As for taking a 20 with Perform - I wish! All of my PC's performances, without above mentioned buffing, would be in excess of 40. (Higher level character and all that.) Depending on campaign style, allowing a non-combat performance to take 20 may, or may not, be broken. But, if you allow it, remember that a 1st level bard, with maxed out ranks and a 13 Cha is going to get a 25 for the perform check. That is not a bad street corner performance for your NPCs.
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