Healing spells and use activated items= 1d8 per round?

[rassav]

Thanks for the feedback and corrections!

Here is a brief description of my group and style for background.
I think that game style has the biggest effect on determining what is "balanced".

All the players in my group have jobs that are at least full-time, or very close to it. Several of us have jobs where we dream of only working 40 hours in a week. The average age in the group is 30. We normally game once a week, and hopefully get 5 hours of gaming in during session. We don't have the time to devote to doing lots of original work, so we tend to take published adventures/modules and modify them or tie them together.

Everyone in the group has DM'ed in the past. There are three of us that DM now, each with their own campaign. We switch off every two-three monthes to give each other a break. We try to keep the rules consistent between our campaigns. Our sessions tend to be encounter driven (key events) with the smaller stuff handled "off screen". Rarely is the visit to the merchant roleplayed out anymore. Again, this is due primarily to time limitations on the players part. I hope other players have more time to devote.

Now the Mea Culpa: I obviously used the wrong values when comparing the Headband of Moradin's Mercy to a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, one of the many dangers of posting in a hurry. Aplogies, and I will be more careful. Thanks to Petrosian for the correction!

yet, surely NPCs make this item as well. (or are the PCs the only ones allowed to have one? Exclusive to PCs?) if so it should appear now and again in treasures?

An NPC could certainly make this item, but we tend to leave original item creation to the charcters. It is more fun for the players and creates the feel that the character is special. These are the kinds of items that get names and build up histories. NPC's that have original/unique items tend to have them because they are included in the adventure we are running. There are several "unique" magic items in RTTToEE that NPC's have that players do not. That said, players know that any type of item they have is fair game for an NPC to use or vice versa.

On comabt use versus post-combat use:
Our experience has been that the Headband of Moradin's Mercy has little combat value. Our group rarely uses it is combat, forseveralreasons.

1) As the characters advance in level, that 1d8+1 really isn't all that helpful, compared to the amounts of damage being inflicted. By 10th level, you had better be using some higher level curing spells.

Hint: If you are relying are CLW when facing enemies that can throw dispel magic you are in big trouble.

2) It is easy to use a dispel magic on the headband. While this rarely comes up, it has been used to suppress the Headband. It was in a close fight and enough to tip the fight in the villain's favor. This occurred when the players first created the item and relied on it to much. Now they know there is a reason caster level is important.

3) Villains are not stupid. If they notice an inordinate amount of healing occuring, they can incapacitate the person with the headband. Tanglefoot Bags, nets, or simple grapples are highly effective at this, especially since the physically weaker characters are the ones that normally wear the Headband.

In post-combat, it hasn't made a huge difference. Sure the party can heal up quickly, but chances are they have exhausted most their spells already. They still try to retreat/fortify and recover spells before they get to the next big encounter. As the characters increase in level it is not hard to "get away" or find a safe place. especially with spellasters in the party. If the party is forced to fight before they can recover spells, then they will have more hitpoints. Without spells though the party will have a very tough time of encounters of their level, with or without the extra healing the Headband can provide.

identify is likewise useless in combat, should an unlimited identify item be cheap too?

I would let an unlimited charge identify item be created according to the formula. Of course, since it has a costly material component it won't be that cheap, even with the creation formula. The biggest issue with such an item, to me, is how quickly it works. If it still has the 8 hours time aspects, definitely not a problem. We don't encounter enough magic items to make it worthwhile though. You'd be better off with a Wand or Scrolls.

Would you EVER consider buying three CLW wands over this item? if the answer is no, its too cheap.

A question on pricing. Does the reverse also hold true? If I would never conside buying this item over three Wand of Cure Light Wounds are they to inexpensive? Or is the item to expensive? I also think that opportunity cost figures in, Do I want the Headband of Moradin's Mercy, or a Wand of Cure Light Wounds AND a Wand of Summon Monster I AND a Wand of Charm Person? Depending on the character, that is a much tougher question to answer. Wands or also available to characters with less money. Why would anyone drive a Kia instead of a BMW? You should be able to get a lot more utility and longer use out of the BMW, but many people just can't afford it while simultaneously making the house payment.



What I would change about this item:

1) Make it function as a spell trigger item, but still have it priced as a use-activated item. I don't think this is a balance issue, but more of a flavor issue.

2) I would like to have each one associated with a deity and "aligned". If you don't have the correct alignment, negative level while wearing it. It seems to fit the feel better for me.

Thanks again for the feedback. It is appreciated, even if it is not always agreed with.

 

[aliensex]

Well, lets see. A Robe of Eyes gives the user: 360 degree vision, darkvision (120 feet), the ability to see invisible and ethereal creatures (120 feet), basically the Uncanny Dodge feet (dex to AC all the time, can't be flanked), and a +15 bonus to Search and Spot checks. Few! Thats a lot of On all the Time spells, bonuses etc. It even gives you the effect of one of the best abilities in the game! And no use activation required. I'd take a wand of all that stuff up there over a wand of CLW any day! The robe has the drawbacks that the user is auto hit with gaze attacks (can't turn away when you see everywhere), and is vulnerable to blinding light attacks. A couple of decent disadvantages. All this for a reasonable 90,000 gold!

So, a continual effecting CLW with no disadvantages? Maybe twice the price of the above? About 180,000 gold? Maybe a little too steep. About 150,000 gold? It does mean that even a high level party could be healed up before a next encounter, but during the encounter, it gives 1 character a variable DR of 2-9 points. Not too uber powerful. That's subjective though, as is the entire art of magic item creation. Now, use activated? Hmmm... Mabe around 70,000 gold? 80,000 gold? Somewhere in there? Again, only accessible to fairly high level characters to afford that much.

 

[Petrosian]

[/B][/QUOTE]

The average age in the group is 30. We normally game once a week, and hopefully get 5 hours of gaming in during session.

While i am not sure how the demographics fit in, since you seem to think it is important, our group has an average age of over 40. Two in the fifties, one siginficatly so, three in early 40's, and two in the later 30's. For one of the 50's, this is her first role playing experience. For one of the 30's he is mostly familiar with computer rpgs, but the rest have been gaming since early 80s.

I am the GM, though three, no four, of them have GMed, two fairly often.

Rarely is the visit to the merchant roleplayed out anymore. Again, this is due primarily to time limitations on the players part. I hope other players have more time to devote.

We use email and a campaign BBS to handle all sorts of downtime stuff as well as non-combat interactions and investigatory stuff. The only thing we wont do via bbs between sessions is action stuff, as that does not translate to non-sequential responses very well.

An NPC could certainly make this item, but we tend to leave original item creation to the charcters. It is more fun for the players and creates the feel that the character is special.

In my game, when a player wnats a custom item, i ask myself, "is this special." A ring of iceballs (like fireball but cold) is not special just because it was not listed in the PHB/DMG. It was not special in my game before or after energy substitution was official. Some "obvious deivatives" i do not give any sort of special consideration. The "unlimited uses of standard PHB spell" category of items fits well into the "not special at all" category for me.

My players tend to need more than "i thought up an item not in the DMG" to feel they have done something special.

There is little to no difference in my game between custom and already in print items. if they exist, if they make sense, if they are obvious, you are probably not the first to do it. My gang has found more CLW wands in enemy hands than they have made.

Unique items are not uniwue, in my games, if every tom bart and mary third level cleric could make one for pocket change.

On comabt use versus post-combat use:
Our experience has been that the Headband of Moradin's Mercy has little combat value.

You and i seem to be in agreement on this. CLW is for post combat.

Hint: If you are relying are CLW when facing enemies that can throw dispel magic you are in big trouble.

2) It is easy to use a dispel magic on the headband. While this rarely comes up, it has been used to suppress the Headband. It was in a close fight and enough to tip the fight in the villain's favor. This occurred when the players first created the item and relied on it to much. Now they know there is a reason caster level is important.

3) Villains are not stupid. If they notice an inordinate amount of healing occuring, they can incapacitate the person with the headband. Tanglefoot Bags, nets, or simple grapples are highly effective at this, especially since the physically weaker characters are the ones that normally wear the Headband.

This is what all doesn't make sense...

if the thing is not useful in combat, thenthe fact that the enemy can "easily" prevent it from being used in combat is trivial, not significant.

You mention tipping the scales in a close fight.

Well, this makes NO sense.

IF the situation is so dire that stopping you from curing an average of 5 hp per round for 1-4 rounds BY THE ITEM is important, why do i not just throw a fireball and eo more damage right now? if 5 hp is important for you to cure right now, won't 15 hp or so from a fireball be more critical? Why should i use a third level spell to get a CHANCE to prevent you from curing 5 hp when i could throw a magic missile and do about 10 hp in damage with a first level spell.

"Gee, freed is near dead so i will cast cure light wounds to give him 1-8+1."

Enemy mage: "Hmmm... i can throw dispel magic and maybe stop the 1d8+1 OR i can throw a mm spell and cause him 6-15. Which one should i do? hmmm...."

In post-combat, it hasn't made a huge difference. Sure the party can heal up quickly, but chances are they have exhausted most their spells already. They still try to retreat/fortify and recover spells before they get to the next big encounter.

The big difference for me would be that it is frequently the case that the time frame the party has to work with is driven by outside elements, not their choices. The fact that my NPCs are off doing things to and so the PCs who want to stop them need to not just "take a day" by hitting the rest button means that the time it takes to recover is critical. At the level my PCs are at now, its a rather trivial thing to get out of dodge, non-combat, with teleports. The issue is "how long do we have? How many people are we letting get killed? and so on."

Were they are out on "for fun" stuff, like raiding a lost tomb for loot, ala the typical smash and grab thing, then the timetable is in their control and the difference is minimal. That is the exception rather than the norm for my games. My games are mostly event driven. The players have learned that the NPCs are doing things and situations change. After the first time or two they "delayed to wait for our magic items to get ready" and they arrived to find their initial info was now out of date and the situation has changed (usually for the worse but in at least one case someone else came along and dealt with the issue) they learned not to think in stagnant situation "hit the rest button" mode.

As the characters increase in level it is not hard to "get away" or find a safe place. especially with spellasters in the party. If the party is forced to fight before they can recover spells, then they will have more hitpoints. Without spells though the party will have a very tough time of encounters of their level, with or without the extra healing the Headband can provide.

One of the most interesting series of sessions we had was one where on another plane over a 36 hour period they met, encounter fought or dealt with about seven serious challenges. The situation had them and several other groups exploring and looking for stuff and so it was sort of a race. They could have stopped after the mages were low, but that meant letting others, including unknown potential others, definitely get ahead. By the end of the series, they were well past their normal spells, even the sorcerer was tapped, and this had led them to begin relying on items and spell batteries (wands and scrolls) as well as finding other ways. it showed them some of the advantages of spell batteries (if you never play after running low on spells then wands have little use.) It also highlighted the fighter/barbarian/rogue players as their "endurance" and ability to keep producing results all day long proved highly valuable. The last fight saw the mages using items and remaining spells primarily to keep the fighter supported, indirect action, because they were out of direct action.

it was an enjoying series of runs.

While i have seen plenty of games where the action is drivien and controlled by the PCs, often simply by greed, and "hit the rest button" was commonplace, i have rarely found them to my liking.

I would let an unlimited charge identify item be created according to the formula.

We differ. (even given the fact that i feel the idenfitying rules are ludicrous and woefully inconsistent with their world. How can you have a magic commerce world where you cannot identify the commodities wih any relaibility?)

A question on pricing. Does the reverse also hold true? If I would never conside buying this item over three Wand of Cure Light Wounds are they to inexpensive? Or is the item to expensive?

Ok this one is easy.

Prices are ALWAYS set based on an existing scale. value is purely comparative.

You have gobs of official pre priced items in the books. That is your "baseline" and other things should be priced in relation to them.

So, if the new item of undetermined price is compared and comes up too favorable, one could ecide the baseline is off, but thats rather silly. You are trying to set the value BY COMPARISON to the published one (or the ones already in use in the campaign.) That means you adjust your GUESSTIMATED price to fit the baseline ones.

If you went out today and built a modest six cyclinder sedan and when ready to go to market you estimated its price at $500,000 and then looked around and saw all those other sedans were 20-30k, would you leap to the conclusion that they are all too cheap, or that your estimate was off?

I also think that opportunity cost figures in, Do I want the Headband of Moradin's Mercy, or a Wand of Cure Light Wounds AND a Wand of Summon Monster I AND a Wand of Charm Person? Depending on the character, that is a much tougher question to answer.

Depending on the character cannot be used to determine price when price and power are supposed to be the issue. My sorcerer would have paid a lot more for a magic mouth item than a fireball item, but thats for personal reason, not a measure of potency.

Wands or also available to characters with less money. Why would anyone drive a Kia instead of a BMW? You should be able to get a lot more utility and longer use out of the BMW, but many people just can't afford it while simultaneously making the house payment.

Assuming the recommended wealth levels, and remembering that wealth levels are a part of balance, the amounts for 2000 vs 750 at a pop are insignificant after just a few levels. items priced under 3000 are commonly available" and most small to mis sized locales can provide a 2000 gold item.

if you use costom rules for these factors, and deviate significantly from these settings, then that will obviously skew things.

What I would change about this item:

1) Make it function as a spell trigger item, but still have it priced as a use-activated item. I don't think this is a balance issue, but more of a flavor issue.

its relatively trivial. instead of being assed around,the one guy using it walsk around. All this does is force the party to include some classes they may or may not want, in order to gain benefit from the item.

2) I would like to have each one associated with a deity and "aligned". If you don't have the correct alignment, negative level while wearing it. It seems to fit the feel better for me.

flavor only. All it will do is again force character decidions... i will play a cleric of such and such cuz i need to get one of those headbands."

A ring of regeneration which only heals at a much slower rate and is significantly restricted (only damage taken while wearing the item) so it cannot be passed around is much more expensive.

All that said...

if the definitions of your campaign are such that out of combat healing (OOCH) is unimportant, which it seems you have stated is the case, then that element changes drastically the value of already existing OOCH. in such a campaign, CLW wands would be much less powerful, and should be much cheaper than, say a shield wand. the ring of regeneration should be rather trivial as well. It should be perhaps cheaper than the use-act CLW item, although not much since the difference (heal one guy vs everyone AND heals in hours or days as opposed to minutes) are UNIMPORTANT. (if OOCH is irrelevent, then it doesn't matter whether its tomorrow or 5 minutes. Everyone gets healed byfore the next fight. Who cares if it is by ring or by headband or by spells?)

In my games, OOCH is vitally important. hence, in my games, such an item would be unbalancing and ridiculously low priced at 2k.

 

[rassav]

We use email and a campaign BBS to handle all sorts of downtime stuff as well as non-combat interactions and investigatory stuff. The only thing we wont do via bbs between sessions is action stuff, as that does not translate to non-sequential responses very well.

I have wanted to do this for a long time, but not everyone is my group has regular email access. How well does it work for you?


Concerning item uniqueness, or "special items". Each item we have created has a story associated with its creation and purpose. I haven't included that for the Headband of Moradin's Mercy since it wasn't balance related. It isn't just a "spell item" to the players.

Unique items are not uniwue, in my games, if every tom bart and mary third level cleric could make one for pocket change.

Item creations feats, besides Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll, and Craft Wand are pretty rare in our games. It is a rare NPC that has any besides these three. I don't remember seeing an NPC in an adventure or module that we have used that had Craft Wondrous Item. I'm sure that this is primarily due to the combat focus of the published game.

We are still getting used to magic being more available in 3rd Edition. The biggest magic item related problem that I have experienced is the players being so afraid of using up scrolls or wands that they don't use them.

This is what all doesn't make sense...
if the thing is not useful in combat, thenthe fact that the enemy can "easily" prevent it from being used in combat is trivial, not significant.

You mention tipping the scales in a close fight.

Well, this makes NO sense.

IF the situation is so dire that stopping you from curing an average of 5 hp per round for 1-4 rounds BY THE ITEM is important, why do i not just throw a fireball and eo more damage right now? if 5 hp is important for you to cure right now, won't 15 hp or so from a fireball be more critical? Why should i use a third level spell to get a CHANCE to prevent you from curing 5 hp when i could throw a magic missile and do about 10 hp in damage with a first level spell.

"Gee, freed is near dead so i will cast cure light wounds to give him 1-8+1."

Enemy mage: "Hmmm... i can throw dispel magic and maybe stop the 1d8+1 OR i can throw a mm spell and cause him 6-15. Which one should i do? hmmm...."

It makes sense because NPC spellcaster's don't always have the best spells for the situation prepared. If you had a fireball to cast, that would certainly be better than casting a dispel magic on the Headband, but sometimes you don't have a fireball prepared. In the situation I mentioned though, the enemy cleric was out of offensive spells and used the dispel magic that he had prepared on the Headband. A good roll took it out for 4 rounds. The inavailability of the Headband tilted combat in the enemies' favor and the party retreated. I did say that it didn't usually matter.

We differ. (even given the fact that i feel the idenfitying rules are ludicrous and woefully inconsistent with their world. How can you have a magic commerce world where you cannot identify the commodities wih any relaibility?)

I'm sorry, but I'm not following your point here. It seems that this would be an argument for items that can Identify being readily available. Could you clarify this please?

On the subject of pricing:

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quote:
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Originally posted by rassav

A question on pricing. Does the reverse also hold true? If I would never conside buying this item over three Wand of Cure Light Wounds are they to inexpensive? Or is the item to expensive?

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Ok this one is easy.

Prices are ALWAYS set based on an existing scale. value is purely comparative.

You have gobs of official pre priced items in the books. That is your "baseline" and other things should be priced in relation to them.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm not contending that the baseline pricing is wrong. My contention is with the seeming assumption that because buying three wands of cure light wounds isn't the option most people would take, then the price of the item is wrong. Three first level wands could be purchased for the price of the Headband, including a combination that is more useful in some situations. There are times when it would be much more useful to have the Wand of Cure Light Wounds and Wand of summon Monster I and Wand of Charm Person than it would be to have the Headband. Does that mean they should cost more?

I'll admit that the pricing of magic items is strange. According to the Item Creation rules, an item that can be used once per day costs 1/5 as much as the same item that can be used on command as often as desired. If this is the case, why wouldn't everyone just create on command items? I suppose there could be any number of reasons. The rules are there, no matter how strange they seem. Please note, I am not saying that those prices have to be used or that players can create any items they want based on that formula. The formulas are a guideline though, just like the items in the DMG. Sometimes the formulas are right on, sometimes they are not. That is why playtesting items is so important.

Assuming the recommended wealth levels, and remembering that wealth levels are a part of balance, the amounts for 2000 vs 750 at a pop are insignificant after just a few levels. items priced under 3000 are commonly available" and most small to mis sized locales can provide a 2000 gold item.

We use the recommended Wealth levels, as per the DMG. We haven't found the price difference to be insignificant. There is still the opportunity cost and reduced flexibility that comes from buying one headband as opposed to three wands. Remember though, that in our campaign player "original" items are not readily available for purchase.

When I first saw this item I thought it was crazy, but playtesting showed us that it fit well in our campaign. Your campaign has a different style though, so it sounds like it wouldn't fit smoothly.

How do you handle magic items that give bonuses to skills in your campaign. They have given me headaches in ours.

Thanks for the feedback! It sounds like you have a good campaign.

Rassav

 

[Petrosian]

[/B][/QUOTE]

I have wanted to do this for a long time, but not everyone is my group has regular email access. How well does it work for you?

Quitr well. We often get "solo" discussion out of the way without causing others to sit and wait. Loot distribution and item ids and shopping is usually done offline, tho sometimes the need for face to face resolution occurs.

All in all, it is a plus.

Concerning item uniqueness, or "special items". Each item we have created has a story associated with its creation and purpose. I haven't included that for the Headband of Moradin's Mercy since it wasn't balance related. It isn't just a "spell item" to the players.

Such special staus in my games is reserved for items that go above the normal. its hard to get my player all gooey and gahhhey over a unique item if that item can do nothing more than their fellow PC could early on. Sure, in the case of the headband it can do it more often but that does not imbue such for specialty in our games.

Item creations feats, besides Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll, and Craft Wand are pretty rare in our games. It is a rare NPC that has any besides these three. I don't remember seeing an NPC in an adventure or module that we have used that had Craft Wondrous Item. I'm sure that this is primarily due to the combat focus of the published game.

Sounds like for your game you have decided to make potions and wands and scrolls the "commonly available" items while other such items, such as cloak of resistance +1" or "+1 sword" are into the rare category. (Even tho such may be under the 3k common limit and even if they are under the towns gp per item limit they would not be for sale because there are not NPCs with the feats to make them commonly.)

Thats fine and a cool house rule. Its probably part of the reasson between our different impressions.

i did not see the craft item feats other than the spell batteries as problematic to allow for use. i did not see any reason to have spellusers across the board find the non-battery ones unacceptable or off limits. +1 swords are not more rare than wands of bull stenngth, the reverse is avtually true since the BS wand is bigger (more expensive and above the 3k limit) and requires a tougher prereq to meet.

Since i dont make "in the book" vs "not in the book" anything of importance, then i dont have that to deal with. Gauntlets of charisma +2 ate not some rare unique thing while cloaks of charisma are available, in my games.

It makes sense because NPC spellcaster's don't always have the best spells for the situation prepared. If you had a fireball to cast, that would certainly be better than casting a dispel magic on the Headband, but sometimes you don't have a fireball prepared. In the situation I mentioned though, the enemy cleric was out of offensive spells and used the dispel magic that he had prepared on the Headband. A good roll took it out for 4 rounds. The inavailability of the Headband tilted combat in the enemies' favor and the party retreated. I did say that it didn't usually matter.

Thats what i was figuring you were meaning. It just seemed like this was sounding more important than a case of "sometimes the enemy spellcasters will only have dispel magics to throw and wont have anything better to dispel than a 5 point cure." which, for my games, would be such a low occurance as to be practically meaningless. If throwing a dispel they would more often belooking to counterspell a powerful spell or to cut down the party buffs or even to try and nerf some other item. If a spell caster able to throw dispel magic has as his best thing to dispels as a 5 hp effect, then he is probably better off using his crossbow, his bow, or his flask of alchemists fire or something rather than use an action to stop 5 hp. a fifth level or more cast who takes an action to "cause" 5 hp is probably seriously underperforming, in my games at least.

I'm sorry, but I'm not following your point here. It seems that this would be an argument for items that can Identify being readily available. Could you clarify this please?

This is an old pet peeve of mine.

Identify will only ID the simplest of items, one function items.
it costs a lot of coin and takes a long time even to do that.
AD at sixth gives more but requires a level of spellcaster way above what is listed as available by the "highest npc levels" stats they give for populating NPCs for their setting.
Yet magic item commerce is established and expected.

I go to a magic shop in the new town. he has a wand labelled "cure light wounds 750 gold." In order to verify that this is indeed such a wand and that it is full of charges and such we have to spend 100 gold and 8 hours. this makes no sense.

If he has a sword labelled "sword of flame" then we need a 12th level caster to take the time.

If i want to seel him my sword of wounding we need the same 12th level guy.

the difficulty in iding items and that they are not cursed does not seem to mesh with the idea of a magic commerce being as readily available as they ascribe for their setting.

I'm not contending that the baseline pricing is wrong. My contention is with the seeming assumption that because buying three wands of cure light wounds isn't the option most people would take, then the price of the item is wrong.

When comparing like items if one would be chosen over the other then the one chosen is too cheap. of course there will be situational exceptions. You should be able to weed those out.

If a guy has a coice between wands of cure light and this headband and has the ability to buy either, he should choose this headband because it is unlimited. Why use wands when this item is available IF both are available?

Three first level wands could be purchased for the price of the Headband, including a combination that is more useful in some situations. There are times when it would be much more useful to have the Wand of Cure Light Wounds and Wand of summon Monster I and Wand of Charm Person than it would be to have the Headband. Does that mean they should cost more?

The cpmparisons do not work this way.

you cannot take "but he might need something else right now" as an issue for comparison.

A ring of invisibility is 20k. A ring of feather falling is much less. in some cases, where you just fell off the back of a dragon in flight, then the ring of feather fall might well be far more "powerful."

if, while you have 2k gold in your pocket, you need something else, if you are not in the market for healing, then you wont buy this item.

if you are in the market for healing, this headband beats wands and scrolls and potions all to heck.

it should be priced on the latter, not the former.

Two character buy items...

One buys a wand of clw, a wand of MSum and a wand of exp ret.

the other buys the headband.

time moves on... for a short while, the clw guy has three options while the other guy has one...

time kmoves on... they get to buy more wands, the clw wand is empty and so he buys a replacement. the headband guy picks up his msum wand.

now, for a short time, the first guy has three otpions and the headband guy has two.

time moves on... they buy more wands... the clw wand is empty again so he buys a third... the headband guy buys a expeditious retreat wand...

now both guys have exactly three options... from this point on, the headband guy will be in a superior position.

The player who bought wands was shortsighted and made an error.

EXCEPTION: if he had reason to know he needed those other wands right now, like the guy falling off the dragon knows he needs the ring of feather falling, then it was a good call.

but prices are not set by men falling off dragons

I'll admit that the pricing of magic items is strange. According to the Item Creation rules, an item that can be used once per day costs 1/5 as much as the same item that can be used on command as often as desired. If this is the case, why wouldn't everyone just create on command items? I suppose there could be any number of reasons. The rules are there, no matter how strange they seem. Please note, I am not saying that those prices have to be used or that players can create any items they want based on that formula. The formulas are a guideline though, just like the items in the DMG. Sometimes the formulas are right on, sometimes they are not. That is why playtesting items is so important.

I think the 5 to 1 thing is an oversimplification. Then again it only comes in for items properties that they already say their charts are very unreliable for.

here i believe is the logic... for most effect, say like a poly self or a detect magic or a fire shield or even a circle vs evil, the frequency with which you will need to use it more than once per encoutner is rare. They do not expect you to have more than 4 or 5 encounters per day since the "challenging encounters" should drive you to rest after 3-4.

So the price reflects that many times per day more than 3-4 is not really gonna help.

what the charts did not account for is that some effects are cumulative or able to be spread around. A cure light wound item is providing a new 5 hp per use and these just stack... a bull strength rod with uses per day can zap more than one guy, buffing perhaps the entire party, so it will be able to provide as a service more than 1 use per encounter... net result 4 encounters might see benefit from 25 uses per day.

but regardless, the SPELLS were not built to fit into the items rules. Every spell description was not constructed to make "use", "command", "trigger" charged vs not charged and all that work, so the charts will not normally work better than a guess. (Actually, to boil it down, the further the item kmoves away from spell castng restrictions -- very limited per day, takes action, requires class, etc) in how it does its moagic the more unreliable the chart is to work.

We use the recommended Wealth levels, as per the DMG. We haven't found the price difference to be insignificant. There is still the opportunity cost and reduced flexibility that comes from buying one headband as opposed to three wands. Remember though, that in our campaign player "original" items are not readily available for purchase.

campaign changes to the item availability rules will definitely affect pricing and value. this should, however, make the charts even LESS relaible, not more.

When I first saw this item I thought it was crazy, but playtesting showed us that it fit well in our campaign. Your campaign has a different style though, so it sounds like it wouldn't fit smoothly.

Exactly, rapid healing between scenarios without ongoing expense would be bad for many of my encounters and force me to change the camapign to fit the item. i see that as a definite tail-wagging-dog.

How do you handle magic items that give bonuses to skills in your campaign. They have given me headaches in ours.

Well the ones in the DMg are not problematic... their values are appropriate and i have seen no headaches.

Since i make every custom items go thru me and not the charts, the notion of custom skill items has not been a problem. my players are smart enough to think that +20 spellcraft is not going to be cheap because it is very powerful. Same for concentration and so on.

Right now the custom items for skills in my game include...

a nigh artifact ring which gives as one of it bonuses a +5 spellcraft. It also serves as a ring of wizardry 3 and allows arcane sight once per day. thats it.

The other item is one character i gave a ring of knowledge Drow as part of his introduction... he was sent to the party under the guise of a drow expert, so his patron needed to give him some actual drow knowledge. The ring allows him to ask 5 questions per day about drow and get a knowledge roll at +10 to see if he gets an answer.

thats about it.