Healing Word out of encounter?

[On Puget Sound]

PHB p. 263 "short rest"

No Limit Per Day: You can take as many short rests per day as you want.

Using Powers while you Rest: If you use an encounter power (such as a healing power) during a short rest, you need another short rest to renew it so that you can use it again.

Interruptions: If your short rest is interrupted, you need to rest another 5 minutes to get the benefits of a short rest.

Their example says that healing powers can in fact be used during a short rest...in fact, it seems to say that any encounter power can be. The "interruptions" quote together with the "no limit" quote strongly imply that you can take back-to-back short rests without having to have an encounter between them. It also says you can take a short rest "when you're not in an encounter", rather than "between encounters".

I don't think the cleric healing everyone between fights is at all cheesy; it's what clerics have always done. The only change is that in 4E instead of the limit being how much you spent on wands, it's how many surges you you have left. I see this as an improvement.

 

[Nifft]

That's not quite what I though of when you said "designers said so many times". Are those quotes from the PHB all you meant by that?

Thanks, -- N

 

[On Puget Sound]

I was sure I'd seen it discussed in an interview as well, but I can't remember now with which designer(s) and I can't seem to find it. So maybe I was confused. In any event, the rule seems pretty clear.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Could you provide a cite of designers saying this? It seems like a cheesy tactic to me.

Thanks, -- N

Why is this cheesy? Healing surges are supposed to be burned as needed between encounters because thier use within an encounter is limited. Burning too many surges after every encounter CAN lead to frequent extended rest syndrome which is cheesy.

 

[Goumindong]

If the designers did not intend for healing powers to be expended every encounter and during encounter downtime(or just before encounter downtime), then they would not have made the powers encounter powers. They would have made them daily powers with a high number of uses.

You should be using all of your encounter healing powers that you can if they increase the healing received and are legal(I.E. you have to hit something that is a threat to get healing from an encounter attack power that also heals) before you take your 5 minute rest to regain them.

 

[Stormtower]

That's not quite what I though of when you said "designers said so many times". Are those quotes from the PHB all you meant by that?

Thanks, -- N

HI Nifft,

I realize this is anecdotal evidence only, and not a quoted post from a Dev or anything, but I played the LFR preview "Scalegloom Hall" at DDXP this year with James Wyatt as the DM. During the module, Mr. Wyatt encouraged the party cleric to use his healing word out of combat, and mentioned that it was a valid tactic that PCs were more or less expected to use when they could.

Unverifiable data, I realize, but I have no reason to tell tall tales here. Hope this helps.

 

[Nifft]

Why is this cheesy? Healing surges are supposed to be burned as needed between encounters because thier use within an encounter is limited. Burning too many surges after every encounter CAN lead to frequent extended rest syndrome which is cheesy.

If the designers did not intend for healing powers to be expended every encounter and during encounter downtime (or just before encounter downtime), then they would not have made the powers encounter powers.

James Wyatt as the DM. During the module, Mr. Wyatt encouraged the party cleric to use his healing word out of combat, and mentioned that it was a valid tactic that PCs were more or less expected to use when they could.

Okay, maybe I didn't say enough.

IMHO:

#1 (Not Cheesy): "We rest for 5 minutes and spend some healing surges."

#2 (Not Cheesy): "I haven't used my Healing Words yet this encounter, so I use those, and then we rest for 5 minutes."

#3 (Cheesy): "I spend two healing surges." -- "No, don't do that, we just have to rest for 5 minutes and then I can give you those healing surges with +1d6+Wis extra healing!" -- "Uh, okay, we all do that. We rest for ... uh ... six five-minute breaks. Half an hour later, we're ready to go."

So far, I think y'all have said that #2 is not cheesy, and I agree. But what about #3?

Cheers, -- N

 

[garyh]

Okay, maybe I didn't say enough.

IMHO:

#1 (Not Cheesy): "We rest for 5 minutes and spend some healing surges."

#2 (Not Cheesy): "I haven't used my Healing Words yet this encounter, so I use those, and then we rest for 5 minutes."

#3 (Cheesy): "I spend two healing surges." -- "No, don't do that, we just have to rest for 5 minutes and then I can give you those healing surges with +1d6+Wis extra healing!" -- "Uh, okay, we all do that. We rest for ... uh ... six five-minute breaks. Half an hour later, we're ready to go."

So far, I think y'all have said that #2 is not cheesy, and I agree. But what about #3?

Cheers, -- N

#3 isn't cheesy because it also carries the risk of sitting in a dungeon for a half hour. Plus, if you're waiting for your healing/inspiring word to recharge, and a patrol finds you, you're in real trouble. I imagine a DM would make sure that eventually a patrol will run into a group that regularly tried to take half hour dungeon breaks.

 

[Skyscraper]

I don't see this as cheesy.

"Let us wait to each get the blessing of Bahamut before continuing our journey."

Of course, it sounds a bit more cheesy when the person saying it alsmot sutters like in your example #3, but that's another matter

Edit: heck, before leaving for battle, people used to do prayers day in and day out under the leadership of priests during the crusades. I don't see how 5 minutes of prayer is cheesy.

Sky

 

[Larrin]

I think #3 is only cheesy because you have to jump through hoops, five minutes at a time, to gain a reasonable benefit to having a cleric in the group. If you have a cleric, its reasonable that he'll do everything he can to help his fellow party members to get the most out of their surges, thus there will be times you need to take some time for him to get all his divine aid dealt out. It becomes cheesy when you HAVE to take 30 minutes or else it wont work. Suddenly its a math problem (healing surges needed to be spent)/(2)*5minutes=time we do nothing. How fun!

A short rest is only more or less 5 minutes (its not like the characters have atomic clocks to tell them '*ding* rest is done'), so for the sake of gameplay, let them take a "long short rest" which is 10-15 minutes (or more it they're really beat up...which makes sense a really beat up party might want to take a half hour breather), during which any healing surge can benefit from the healing word. Cleric gets to shine, party gets healed (which it would anyway), DM doesn't have a party camping for stupidly long periods of time for which logic dictates they should be ambushed. Everyone wins. Forcing an exact time on the players will only make everyone sad