D&D 5E Heat Metal Rules Interp / Minor Nerf

[FormerlyHemlock]

As a bard class ability, you can use a musical instrument like a kazoo or a fiddle to substitute for the material components, including the flame. You can just play a "hot" tune to cast Heat Metal. The Devil Went Down To Georgia, maybe? (Beats me how you could play the whole song in six seconds, but...)

See PHB 53 and 203 for details.

 

[Uchawi]

As with any spell, ability, or magic item, the frequency of use is the biggest question. One time uses have less of a chance to create a major disruption, versus every lizard man shaman having heat metal, or every drow have magic weapons, or every golem having resistance to mundane weapons. Everything in moderation.

 

[Gimul]

Heat metal is overpowered. We decided that the first time people cast it. It was probably in this same adventure, as well. We realized it was way more useful for enemies than it was for PCs because over 50% of the time the enemies wouldn't have weapons or armor. The PCs ALWAYS have weapons and armor.

Once the initial save is failed, it is impossible to get your armor off before the duration expires and you don't get any more saves, so you are guaranteed to take the full damage from it, which is much higher than every other spell of its level.

We discussed it and didn't really come up with a good answer other than allowing the save every round to completely avoid the damage and the disadvantage that round or maybe a save that ended the spell entirely. I think, in the end, we decided on a gentleman's agreement not to cast it on armor...ever.

Clarification, the disadvantage only last one round (and only takes effect at all if the item remains in contact). The target gets a new saving throw against the disadvantage every time it takes damage from the spell. So while the target may be disadvantaged for multiple rounds, it would have to fail multiple saving throws (1 failed save for each round of disadvantage).

 

[Bayonet]

I don't see the problem with Heat Metal unfairly targeting a habitually armored character; it makes sense for the spell to exist within the universe the game occurs in, so I think it's fair game to use it. It's similarly unfair when the sub-sub-sub-basement of the dungeon is in complete darkness, and populated by monsters with darkvision, or when the gang of plucky bandits spring an ambush on the PC's, and decide that dumping a crossbow bolt each into the man wearing the arcane nightshirt is in their best interest.

If you are running varied and interesting combat encounters, you are invariably going to run into situations where one PC is at a disadvantage, but that makes the game interesting and dynamic.

 

[Gimul]

What?

Most warrior type NPCs that I use wear armor if it is available to them and circumstances permit it just like any sane character. Heat metal can be very effective against such opponents on either side. I don't think the spell is overpowered, against PCs or NPCs.

Yeah its nasty if cast on armor, but its supposed to be. It requires concentration (which can be broken) and only targets a single creature. So the party might be attacked by a band of 12 hobgoblins in heavy armor. ONE of them might be in for a very bad day because of that spell. It eats a second level slot and only takes care of one enemy.

As far as PCs go, heavy armor has advantages and disadvantages. It provides better AC without needing a high DEX, but vulnerability to heat metal, problems in deep water, and steamy jungles are some of the down sides. A smart PC will equip themselves for the environment. If enemies are encountered and have access to the heat metal spell, and a PC continues to wear armor that makes him/her a target for the spell then oh well too bad so sad. Cook like a Perdue oven stuffer roaster and think about your choices.

It's not overpowered, even when used against PC's. It's decent damage for a bonus action, but requires concentration. It imposes disadvantage (for a round at a time), but with a chance to save each time. Characters with high Con, proficient in Con saves, that can generate their own source of advantage, or who happen to be standing in a Paladin's aura all stand a good chance of either shrugging off the disadvantage or simply ignoring it outright.

It is simply one of the many checks and balances that govern equipment and ability score choices. High dex/low con? Maybe non-metal armor is something you should consider. Plate mail in your future? Perhaps Con shouldn't be your dump stat. Low Con Cleric? Let's prepare dispel magic, just in case.

Does that mean the DM should spam it at every opportunity? No, but mostly because that would just be boring. But should npc's with both access to the spell, and the intelligence/forethought to make use of it do so? Absolutely. Players make choices; sometimes they have consequences. It's up to the DM to make those choices matter, and to make the consequences interesting.

 

[schnee]

It's only really overpowered when NPCs use it against PCs. Enemies normally die so quickly that it isn't broken and most of them don't wear armor.

As for it being worse than those other spells, that's kind of debatable. Conjure Animals isn't as good as everything thinks it is. There's basically one or two animal choices that make it good. If you listen to Mike Mearls and The Sage then the caster isn't supposed to be able to choose the animals they summon. So it isn't that good. Spike Growth, IME has no effect at all. You cast it, all the enemies stand still after the first one takes some damage from it, and they use range weapons on the caster until it goes away. Flaming Sphere only does damage at the end of a round that you are next to it, so anyone will move away from it, thereby taking no damage at all. Basically, it is a single target spell that requires a bonus action every round to attack someone.

Your party either isn't being inventive or your DM is being completely unfair.

Does every enemy you ever encounter have missile weapons?
Does every combat take place in a location where you can't move out of line of sight, or far enough away from the (currently) immobile missile weapon users to grant them disadvantage?
Does every combat take place in wide open areas where a 5' sphere of wandering damage wouldn't severely impact movement or create other opportunities for other characters?
Do the characters or DM not understand that a sphere moved into several tightly-packed enemies at the end of a turn after they have acted and expended their moves will hurt all of them?
Hasn't the Druid ever Thorn Whipped someone into the flaming sphere?

The game has an action economy, turn, and combat round structure that enables these things.

 

[CydKnight]

I always try to balance things in game, when I feel they need balancing, with something else that can be obtained by the characters in game. For the OP example, the Dispel Magic spell immediately came to mind but it isn't the only way to counter Heat Metal. If the characters don't have access to that spell, you can always set it up for them to find the Scroll version before the encounter. Alternatively, since ii is a spell which requires concentration, the caster will have to make a concentration check whenever they take damage. If they don't make the check, the spell will go away.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Your party either isn't being inventive or your DM is being completely unfair.

Does every enemy you ever encounter have missile weapons?
Does every combat take place in a location where you can't move out of line of sight, or far enough away from the (currently) immobile missile weapon users to grant them disadvantage?
Does every combat take place in wide open areas where a 5' sphere of wandering damage wouldn't severely impact movement or create other opportunities for other characters?
Do the characters or DM not understand that a sphere moved into several tightly-packed enemies at the end of a turn after they have acted and expended their moves will hurt all of them?
Hasn't the Druid ever Thorn Whipped someone into the flaming sphere?

The game has an action economy, turn, and combat round structure that enables these things.

You can't ready a bonus action and it isn't a reason so you can't move the sphere on someone else's turn after they've moved. They can always move away from the sphere unless you've somehow trapped them in a corner, which requires that you block multiple squares. It IS possible, but it doesn't happen very often. Enemies can move through each other's squares and only 9 of them can even be around a sphere at the same time. But most of the time is impossible to move it next to more than 3 because of the way the grid system works. When enemies can simply move away from the sphere and not take damage 95% of the time, the 5% of the time where the terrain allows you to trap them doesn't make the spell worth preparing. Most of the time this spell works like this:

"I move the sphere next to the enemy."
"On its turn it attacks you then moves 5 feet in any direction that takes it away from the sphere. It doesn't take any damage."
"I move it next to it again."
Then repeat.

Most of the time you can stay next to anyone in melee with you while still moving away from the sphere.

There ARE enemies without ranged weapons. Those enemies are hindered by Spike Growth. But if there's only a 30% chance you run into that kind of monster, then you prepare a spell that works on all monsters instead.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

It's not unbalanced. Is it inconvenient? Sure. But nothing a Dispel Magic (the cleric does have that, right?) or disrupting the hostile spell caster's concentration wouldn't cure.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

It's not unbalanced. Is it inconvenient? Sure. But nothing a Dispel Magic (the cleric does have that, right?) or disrupting the hostile spell caster's concentration wouldn't cure.

But Heat Metal is a second level spell which means you could fight an enemy with it as early as 1st level. You don't get access to Dispel Magic until you are 5th level, assuming you even take it. Your party might not have anyone who can cast Dispel Magic at all and even if you do, they might not have prepared it (given the limited number of things it works on, it's not the best choice for a 3rd level spell if you have no idea what to expect. There's at least a 50% chance, probably more, that in a day of adventuring you don't need to cast it at all, making it a waste of a prepared spell). Also, monsters often don't create balanced groups and don't often even have spellcasters but they might wear armor. If we are considering the spells power, we have to consider its use in both monsters and PCs. Since there's so many reasons a group might not have one particular spell, let's assume the majority of groups don't have it and it's a lucky coincidence when they are able to stop a Heat Metal with a Dispel Magic. That makes it not a reliable counter.

As for doing damage to disrupt concentration...that is true of all spells. Using that as solution means you can justify any overpowered spell on the basis that if you do enough damage it'll end. You could make a first level spell that said "choose any number of creatures within 300 feet and at the beginning of each of their turns they make a saving throw or die" that lasts for concentration up to an hour and it wouldn't be overpowered because it could be dispelled or you could do damage to the caster to disrupt their concentration.

In order to determine if something is overpowered you need to see if it is better than the other choices you have at the same level.