D&D 5E Heat Metal Rules Interp / Minor Nerf

[FormerlyHemlock]

In any case, what are your thoughts in terms of spell balance?

My main thought: Conjure Elemental is even better than normal, if you cast it in a place that winds up giving you Magma Mephits. 4 Magma Mephits, each with Heat Metal 1/day and a breath weapon, are an excellent value for one fourth level spell slot. 8d8 of fire damage per turn plus 8d6 of breath weapon on a flying chassis is rather a good deal.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Heat metal is overpowered. We decided that the first time people cast it. It was probably in this same adventure, as well. We realized it was way more useful for enemies than it was for PCs because over 50% of the time the enemies wouldn't have weapons or armor. The PCs ALWAYS have weapons and armor.

Once the initial save is failed, it is impossible to get your armor off before the duration expires and you don't get any more saves, so you are guaranteed to take the full damage from it, which is much higher than every other spell of its level.

We discussed it and didn't really come up with a good answer other than allowing the save every round to completely avoid the damage and the disadvantage that round or maybe a save that ended the spell entirely. I think, in the end, we decided on a gentleman's agreement not to cast it on armor...ever.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Since jungles tend to be wet, the first time they are hit with it, make sure there is a body of water on the map, and the cleric can jump in to end the effect. After the battle, let him loot some non-metal armor from the lizardfolk - something 1 or 2 points below his normal AC.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Once the initial save is failed, it is impossible to get your armor off before the duration expires and you don't get any more saves, so you are guaranteed to take the full damage from it, which is much higher than every other spell of its level.

Not guaranteed. It's a concentration spell; you can break the caster's concentration.

It does make dragonscale armor a valuable thing though.

P.S. Haha, maybe Heat Metal is why druids "won't" wear metal armor? Too many bad experiences with other druids.

 

[zingbobco000]

Which is the definition of situational.

But there are only a few enemies who don't wear metal armor and don't have metal weapons. It's similar to saying that Cone of Cold is a bad spell because there are many cold resistant/immune enemies.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Not guaranteed. It's a concentration spell; you can break the caster's concentration.

It does make dragonscale armor a valuable thing though.

P.S. Haha, maybe Heat Metal is why druids "won't" wear metal armor? Too many bad experiences with other druids.

Or with Lizardfolk!

I think Savvimangy is overanalyzing it. Apparently they find it useful (which suggests to me their main enemies are the sort who use steel) so its available to their shaman. Yeah, it's powerful, but it's also Concentration, as are some of his other spells. If he uses it, hit him a bunch.

Also, it's in a swamp. As DM I'd allow somebody wearing metal armor to negate the effect by immersing themselves in water, with various negative effects (prone? difficult terrain? etc.)

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Not guaranteed. It's a concentration spell; you can break the caster's concentration.

Yeah, but I always consider worst case scenario when I determine the power of spells. I assume the caster uses it on you then hides somewhere they won't be able to be attacked while their friends attack you.

Even if it only lasts 2 or 3 rounds, however, it's still overpowered. I believe we figured out the only time it isn't overpowered is if you are able to drop the weapon it is cast on immediately.

 

[Saeviomagy]

But there are only a few enemies who don't wear metal armor and don't have metal weapons. It's similar to saying that Cone of Cold is a bad spell because there are many cold resistant/immune enemies.

The difference is that one of those is true and the other is not. Only humanoids (the form, not the creature type) even wear armor or use weapons. Of those humanoids only a few use metal ones. Of those only a few use exclusively metal weapons. And only some of those rely on weapons for their danger. So no, it's not similar.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The difference is that one of those is true and the other is not. Only humanoids (the form, not the creature type) even wear armor or use weapons. Of those humanoids only a few use metal ones. Of those only a few use exclusively metal weapons. And only some of those rely on weapons for their danger. So no, it's not similar.

And yet, many of the most dangerous enemies do wear metal armor and/or wield metal weapons. Drow Elite Warriors, Hobgoblin Warlords, and Yuan-ti Abominations, Mezzoloths, Nycaloths, Mariliths, and Djinnis all have metal weapons. All of these types are far more dangerous (IMC) than non-tool-using foes like Hydras and Behirs, partly because the Behir will hunt you only when it's hungry, whereas the intelligent foes will hunt you because they want you dead--and partly because tool-users have access to ranged weaponry, the ability to create fortifications, the ability to set ambushes, and the ability to make long-term plans.

So at least IMC, Heat Metal would be useful against many of the toughest foes, and not niche at all. At least, if you could afford to spend your action and concentration on it. Heating the armor of one hobgoblin out of twelve is barely more effective than attacking with a cantrip, and if you cast Heat Metal on a Marilith, the Marilith will just drop that weapon if it fails the Con save. So the spell winds up being fairly ineffective against high-level foes, but it's not because of the lack of metal weapons--it's because most tough things have good Con saves, so all the spell will probably be doing is inflicting 2d8 damage per round.

 

[Savage Wombat]

It does sound like heat metal is more powerful in the hands of NPCs than PCs. However - didn't WotC build these monsters, and determine their CRs, by what their damage output was? It seems that a wizard with fireball is a different CR than a wizard of the same level with dispel magic. So, hypothetically, the lizardfolk shaman should have been balanced on the assumption that "he has a killer spell available".