Heathen - Skill Challenge?

[Ninja-to]

Ok so the Dungeon module 'Heathen' has me pretty confused. It could be that I haven't read through the whole DMG yet and I'm missing something, but if anyone can please enlighten me on a few things.

The Skill Challenge is a mystery to me. First I don't understand why exactly it exists, let alone justify it to the players as necessary to pass for them to progress. Yeah I can understand the need to be able to find a trail or whatever, but the skill challenge text itself is missing some pretty critical information (correct me if I'm wrong here, maybe it's somewhere else in the module or it's in the DMG or somethign).

First, what happens if you succeed on a check? You've done what, exactly? You pass the Nature (DC 18) check which means... you've found a trail? Ok, what happens if you don't pass that check? You roam around aimlessly? As a side note, I suppose finding a trail is a nature check while finding tracks is a perception check? Hmm...

Ok same question for each of those skill checks, what happens should you succeed, what happens if you fail? That's probably the most important question. One other thing that's vague though is just how many villages are you supposed to go through before 'making' it? Do you progress through each of the skill checks just once, then at the end you've 'made it'?

If someone can break this skill challenge down nice and simply for me I'd be very grateful. Maybe my mind is just slow but it's still not making much sense to me no matter how many times I read it. Like I said not sure if the answers are in the DMG, haven't had time to get in and search.

 

[BeauNiddle]

A skill check is used to acheive a specific task (e.g. climb that wall there)

A skill challenge is used to acheive a specific aim (e.g. climb that wall there to impress the guildmaster with how agile I am)


As such the check is not a specific single task but rather a nebulous collection of actions. To win a skill challenge you need to get a certain number of successes before you get a certain number of failures (the exact numbers will be specified at the start of the challenge)


The nature check is not to find a path heading north it's to follow an old worn out path that heads in a roughly north direction but bends round slightly to the NW. A success means you don't get lost, a failure means you spend more time and energy trying to follow it than you wanted to. Too many failures and something bad (but not adventure stopping) happens.


A skill check is a straight die roll - are you lucky enough that whatever points you invested in the skill are enough. A skill challenge is designed to open the concept - here is the aim you wish to acheive, using all your skills and resources how do you intend to acheive it? It gives the players much more freedom but still a concrete goal to aim at.


Some people argue that the maths for skill challenges is slightly squiffy. As such it is recommended that the DM give out generous roleplay / situation bonuses and that you players think about using aid another (e.g. I'll use my perception check to look for signs so player Y can do a better nature check)

 

[BeauNiddle]

Oka I've just found the adventure and I have to say I think it's a very badly written skill challenge.

The DMG specifically states that failure at a skill challenge should be a hindrance NOT a road block. The adventure says:

Failure: The PCs’ inability to gain the complete trust of the folk of the frontier sees them stymied in their efforts to find the Black March.

which is just ... bad.

It would appear the penalties for doing badly in the skill challenge are meant to be extra time wondering from village to village (using up food and time) and lack of access to the rumours available.

I would alter it so that success would give them prior knowledge of the Village Showdown encounter so they can ambush the bugbears themselves. Failure means the Hobgobs gloat about their knowledge of the player characters (mention the armour and weapons the players have, insult the gods of the clerics and paladins, etc.)

I'd also change my descriptions of travel depending on successes - "you travel straight making good time" vs. "it's only the lights of the hamlet ahead that guide you to your destination as you stumble into town with the setting sun"

It looks like Blades in the Night is meant to happen anyway so getting a map to the Black March is pretty much a given.



The second skill challenge in B6 among the wolves is better structured - success is information, failure is a combat (or at least running away before your cover is blown)

 

[functionciccio]

Basically, as BeauNiddle said.

Ninja-to,
in the skill challenge you are mentioning (I guess is the one at page 32), the DM should say something like this: "Well guys, your characters seek out frontier villages, searching for information on Jaryn, the cult, and the location of the Black March. We'll resolve this trip across the borderlands using a skill challenge. The primary skills are Endurance, Nature, Streetwise, Perception. You need 12 successes before 6 failures to win this challenge (since it is 'difficulty 5')".

Every day of "travel", the party must make a "group" Endurance check (this means that ony one PC will make the actual check, while the others will provide a +2 bonus each if they beat an Endurance check with DC 10).
You can quote the adventure as to why they have to make this check ("The frontier is an inhospitable expanse of scrub... etc").
If the check is failed, they have earned a failure (they failed to endure the harsh environment). Otherwise, they have earned a success.

Also, every day of "travel", one of the PCs must make a Nature check. If the check is failed, they have earned a failure and they wander aimlessly in the borderlands for that day. Otherwise, not only they have earned a success, but they have found a village.

Every time they are inside a village, they can use Streetwise, Perception and Diplomacy, as explained in the adventure.

Diplomacy does not yeld successes or failures, but gives a +2/-2 to Streetwise and/or Perception. Every time a PCs makes a Streetwise and/or Perception check, the group has earned a success and obtained some information (see "rumors" at page 33). If someone fails one of those checks, the group has earned a failure.

Note that while the Endurance\Nature checks are basically "just checks" ("Ok guys, someone has to make me a Nature check"), the Streetwise, Perception and Diplomacy ones require ideas/motivations/roleplay in order to be accepted by the DM.

The nexd day the group hits the road again and it's time to make new Endurance and Nature checks, looking for the next village.

When the group has achieved 12 successes, they have won the skill challenge ("From the final village, the PCs are given directions to the Black March"). If they achieve 6 failures (before achieving the 12 successes), they have failed the skill challenge ("If the PCs are unsuccessful in the skill challenge, Auldwyl and the other townsfolk can give them only a rough bearing on the route the cultists take when they leave town. The encounter “Blades in the Night” gives the PCs a second chance to find the Black March.")

Final note: the DCs of the checks are broken. Decrease each DC by 5.

I hope this helps.

 

[Ninja-to]

Thanks guys, lots of good advice here will read through it carefully for game day. Was quite confusing trying to understand that skill challenge.