Hedge Wizard

[Cheiromancer]

I am toying with the idea of placing an organization of fiend-worshipping cultists in my campaign world (which has a FR geography and basic pantheon). I've decided that the higher level members will be Ur-Priests (from the Complete Divine).

In the course of working out the "prefix" to this prestige class I decided to try Wizard 2/Rogue 2/X 1. "X" is a class with a good BAB and Fort save. Maybe Ranger. The best order of the classes is Wizard-X-Rogue-Rogue-Wizard. This makes it easier to meet the skill point pre-reqs for Ur-Priest.
[edit]This prefix only works if you use an alternative method of calculating base saves. See my response to Sigurd[/edit]

I didn't want to use clerics and druids in the Ur-Priest prefix, as this would make the organization dependent on recruiting its leaders from outside- I want it to be self-sufficient. Outside of core books, I think that Bard 3/Marshal 2 or Marshal 2/Hexblade 3 work well. Marshal is from the Miniature's Handbook, and Hexblade is from the Complete Warrior.

Anyways. I took the Wizard 2/Rogue 2/Ranger 1 prefix and calculated what the average saves, BAB and skill points were. Then I did a little substituting out (the biggest change was putting in nature sense and mettle for favored enemy), fiddled with the numbers a trifle, and tried to extend the result into a viable 20 level class. I got to level 9 by considering the prefix for Arcane Trickster: a 9th level hedge wizard is roughly the equivalent of a rogue3/wizard 6. Then I followed the general pattern of a prestige class and put in a special ability every couple of levels.

Anyway, here's my first draft. I am not certain of the best name, so I am just calling it...

The Hedge Wizard

Hit dice: d6
Armor and Weapons: Light armor, no shield, simple weapons
Attacks: medium BAB (like a rogue)
Saves: all good (like a monk)

Skill points: 4 + Int modifier
Class skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Move Silently, Open Locks, Profession, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival.

Key ability for spells: Intelligence.

[color=silver]

Level	
1	sneak attack +1d6, trap sense, Track
2	nature sense, wild empathy
3	evasion
4	familiar, spellcasting
5	mettle
6	
7	uncanny dodge
8	
9	sneak attack +2d6
10	
11	improved uncanny dodge
12	
13	spell resistance (level +10)
14	
15	improved evasion
16	
17	sneak attack +3d6
18	
19	poison and disease immunity
20	[/color]

Special Abilities:

Sneak attack, trap sense, (improved) evasion and (improved) uncanny dodge are as the rogue abilities. Nature sense (+2 to knowledge: nature and survival checks) is from the druid, wild empathy is the druid/ranger ability, and Track is the ranger bonus feat.

To fill in blank spaces in the chart I put in mettle (like evasion, only for fort and will saves- it is the hex blade's 3rd level ability (CW)), and poison/disease immunity (like the monk). Spell resistance is like the monk ability too; SR = class level + 10.

The hedge wizard's familiar and spellcasting is the same as for a standard wizard 3 levels lower. They prepare spells from a spellbook like a wizard, but cannot specialize in a school of magic. A 4th level hedge wizard has the spellcasting ability of a first level wizard, and a 20th level hedge wizard has the spellcasting ability of a 17th level wizard. Just enough to cast 9th level spells; which is why there is no additional perk for 20th level.

Role: A very low level hedge wizard is an unskilled rogue who can survive fairly well in the wilderness. Which is good, since he can't compete with the more dedicated rogues in the big city! A hedge wizard peruses old tomes and practices esoteric meditative techniques in the hope of awakening magical talent within. Until these meditative techniques bear fruit, the only magic the hedge wizard can use are of the disappearing coin variety. Real spellcasters dismiss them (correctly) as charlatans and frauds.

The hedge wizard's "meditative techniques" yield an increased sensitivity to details other people would miss- thus nature sense, trap sense and track. Hedge wizards can react faster to unexpected situations (good reflex saves, evasion, uncanny dodge) and are more in tune with their bodies (thus the good fort saves and eventual immunity to poison and disease.) Spiritual awareness manifests eventually as spellcasting ability and as the ability to completely avoid harmful magic (thus the class abilities of spell resistance, mettle and improved evasion).

Mid-level hedge wizards start to learn real magic, and their unorthodox approach starts to bear fruit; they have better hit points, saves, and skill points than a wizard of the same level, their special abilities largely make up for their weaker spellcasting. Hedge wizards compare very well to multiclass rogue/wizards. Among the prestige classes a single classed hedge wizard can qualify for are Arcane Trickster, Assassin, and Ur-priest.

Comments?

Can anyone think of a better name?

 

[Sigurd]

I'm not clear on your spell progression

How does this class gain spells? How many?

It seems really powerful to have both sneak attack and 9th level spells

How does this character train and where???

I think Arcane Thief would be better title than Hedge Wizard. Hedge wizards remind me of druidy wizards with sort of homely magic and a lot of common sense. They dont have this much thief mixed in (IMHO).

What are the pre-reqs for the class?


Sigurd

 

[Cheiromancer]

How does this class gain spells? How many?

Just like a wizard 3 levels lower. Note that while they are proficient in armor, they still suffer from arcane spell failure.

It seems really powerful to have both sneak attack and 9th level spells

Really? Compare with a Rogue 3/Wizard 7/Arcane Trickster 10- which also has a caster level of 17, but has +7d6 sneak attack damage.

How does this character train and where???

I don't really understand this question. How and where do rogues and wizards train?

I think Arcane Thief would be better title than Hedge Wizard. Hedge wizards remind me of druidy wizards with sort of homely magic and a lot of common sense. They dont have this much thief mixed in (IMHO).

I agree with you about the connotations of Hedge Wizard- a druidic wizard or arcane druid or something. But I'm not sure that Arcane Thief works- while this class is definitely arcane, it is at most 1/4 thief. Some of the thief abilities are shared by other core classes (uncanny dodge, evasion), and there are a few druid/ranger and pure monk abilities in there as well.

It is actually intended to feed into the Ur-Priest class, so cultist or arcane cultist might be better. Instead of Knowledge (all), maybe specify Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (planes).

What are the pre-reqs for the class?

It's a base class, so there are no pre-reqs. High intelligence is definitely a plus; they don't have a whole lot of skill points, so they need the bonus points badly. And of course they need intelligence to pump their spells. An intelligence of 12 and a high wisdom are best if they intend to go Ur-Priest.

I should point out that the Rogue 2/Wizard 2/Ranger 1 prefix won't qualify you for Ur-Priest if you calculate the base save bonuses by the book. i.e. if you do the following, you don't get the +3 fort save:

           Fort          Ref          Will
Rogue 2    0              3             0
Wizard 2   0              0             3
Ranger 1   2              2             0
-----------------------------------------
Total      2              5             3

But using fractional save progressions (as suggested in Unearthed Arcana) and rounding down *after* adding (instead of before), you get the following:

           Fort          Ref          Will
Rogue 2    2/3           3            2/3
Wizard 2   2/3           2/3          3
Ranger 1   2 1/2         2 1/2        1/3
-----------------------------------------
Total      3 5/6         6 1/6        4

The Hedge Wizard gets 3 good saves, which at 5th level is +4, +4, +4. Which is closer to the alternative way of calculating saves.

A valid prefix according to the standard way of calculating saves would be Wizard 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 3. This is more thiefly and less arcane than the version I used, but Arcane Thief would be a good description of the combo.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[Sigurd]

You might be right about balance issues

I just generally expect that learning magic takes up all your time to do it right. To me it seems like one of the costs of magic is a huge vulnerability while you are studying. This balances the explosive power when it is achieved and enacted.

Combining things into one core class seems to me to allow a much safer progression that, were it possible, might make a lot of wizard colleges empty. The question of training basically refers to this. How do you expect the class as a calling\profession would fit into the game world.

I see your point about the multiclass Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster and, as a DM, I'd be more comfortable with the multiclass route unless there was a cultural dynamic behind this as a core class. As a DM I don't promise my players any Prestige classes unless they spring from the game play.

Don't forget that the Arcane Trickster is a third class. First looks say you must be at least a 3rd thief, a 5th level Wizard before you can really even begin as an Arcane Trickster. That's eight levels to create your context with the thieves guild, mages guild etc... during that time you can appear as an ordinary thief or mage. I imagine a very small fraction of a percent of thieves and wizards would apply themselves to become arcane tricksters if they are successful in what they are already doing. I guess I see a core class as a much easier wider appeal sort of thing.

It is an interesting class. I guess my concerns are stylistic.


S

 

[Sanackranib]

as I recall there was a hedge wizard class in the 2e humanoids book. I believe that they were limited to 6th level spells and had to pick 1-2 barred schools - although they were not specialists. illusion and enchantment were what they were the best at. I would think that at level 1 or 2 that they would get brew potion but not get scribe scroll. and for 3e I would give them the bard spell progression rather then as a wizard 3 levels lower. also I would add all of the druid spells from either the plant or animal sphere. their spells per day I would treat as the bards, the spells wouldnt be spontanious and I would think that 1 spell learned per level automatically would be in line. as a DM I wouldnt limit the number of additional spells that the hedge wizard could learn through other methods like research or trade.
I hope that you find this usefull.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Re: Hedge Wizard. The name isn't the starting point. I started by wondering why it is so hard to get a flavorful prefix to ur-priest. I kept getting strange mixtures of rogue, wizard and ranger, which feels contrived. Cleric/rogue works, of course, but for the reasons I give above I didn't want to use clerics. Some kind of cultist class would be better.

And anyway the first few levels of the class I propose above don't really seem to me to work. Probably because it is based on an arbitrary mixture of base classes. There is a woodsy theme (nature sense and track) and a rogue theme (sneak attack, skills) and an arcane theme (familiar and spellcasting) which seems cobbled together. Rogue and arcane kinda fit, but I think the woodsy theme has to go. So here's draft two. Not a disguised multiclass combo, but close in power to one. I replaced nature sense, trap sense and track with the "knack" special ability, renamed the class, and rewrote the class description. I think the result is more focussed and coherent than draft 1 was:

The Occultist

Abilities: Intelligence powers an occultist’s spells, and enhances his skills. Constitution and dexterity are most important for sheer survivability.
Alignment: any non-good
Hit dice: d6
Armor and Weapons: Light armor, no shield, simple weapons
Attacks: medium BAB (like a rogue)
Saves: all good (like a monk)

Skill points: 4 + Int modifier
Class skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge (any), Move Silently, Open Locks, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft.

Key ability for spells: Intelligence.

[color=silver]

Level	
1	sneak attack +1d6, trap sense
2	knack
3	evasion
4	familiar, spellcasting (level-3)
5	mettle
6	
7	uncanny dodge
8	
9	sneak attack +2d6
10	
11	improved uncanny dodge
12	
13	spell resistance (level +10)
14	
15	improved evasion
16	
17	sneak attack +3d6
18	
19	poison and disease immunity
20	[/color]

Special Abilities:

Knack (Ex): A second level occultist gains insight either into the use of a weapon or a skill in which he has no skill ranks. If a weapon is chosen, the occultist gains Weapon Focus with that weapon. If a skill has been chosen, the occultist is henceforth treated in all ways to have a number of ranks in that skill equal to his class level plus his intelligence bonus (if any). The occultist loses the benefit of this ability if he ever buy ranks in the chosen skill.

Sneak attack, trap sense, (improved) evasion and (improved) uncanny dodge are as the rogue abilities.

Mettle is like evasion, only for fort and will saves- it is the hex blade's 3rd level ability (CW), and poison/disease immunity is like that of the monk. Spell resistance is like the monk ability too; SR = class level + 10.

The occultist's familiar and spellcasting is much the same as for a standard wizard 3 levels lower, except that an occultist must give up a school of magic (as a specialist wizard does) without gaining any of the benefits of specialization. An occultist may give up any school of magic except for divination. An occultist prepares his spells using a spellbook, just as a standard wizard does.

Ex-occultists: There is something a little off about the occultist’s approach to the world, one which does not appeal to good characters. An occultist who becomes good retains all class abilities, but cannot gain further levels as an occultist.

Role: Many occultists are failures in some other field of endeavor; they are the wizard’s apprentice who cannot learn any spells, the novice cleric whose faith is too weak, or the would-be bard who does not have the heart for the profession. It is not that the occultist’s talent is lacking; but it is hidden too deeply for the standard training of a character class to unlock. Resentment over this early failure tends to embitter the character, though they may put on a cheerful face.

Other occultists are scholars (experts) who feel that they have hidden talents waiting to be discovered; talents which will bring them wealth and power. They pore over old tomes and practice exotic meditation techniques in order for these powers to be uncovered. Occultists will often form secret societies in which their discoveries can be shared; occultists are natural conspirators, and are well suited to skullduggery. Still other occultists are bored aristocrats who seek the thrill of secret knowledge and the reassurance of a group of fellow strivers.

And finally, there are the occultists who are raised and trained as such; typically such occultists are also cultists of one kind or another.

Whatever their background, occultists are convinced that there is a secret to success, and that this secret is within their grasp. Though sometimes dismissed as charlatans, dillettantes and con artists, occultists sometimes stumble onto the secrets of real magic; rarely, however, do they achieve the power of standard wizards. For this reason spell-casting occultists tend to resent wizards and sorcerers, and sometimes clerics as well. This animosity is usually kept well hidden.

The benefits of the slow path to power are not inconsiderable. Occultists are more aware of themselves and their world, and thus are harder to assail either physically, mentally, or spiritually. Of the standard character classes, only monks are more resilient.

The most obvious of an occultist's awakened talents is arcane spellcasting. But occultists typically have a skill or weapon with which they exhibit unusual skill; this is their "knack." Even occultists who do not have a weapon knack seem unusually competent with a dagger or club; especially when they strike from surprise or from behind. Conversely, an occultist who has a weapon knack is more skilled than a wizard of equal intelligence.

Multiclassing: Occultists can easily become arcane tricksters, and those with blacker hearts are well-suited to become assassins or ur-priests.

 

[Sigurd]

I like the feeling of this much more

This seems far more appealing to me.

Might I suggest some sort of cult recognition system. eg a set of hand signals. Perhaps a progressive acceptance into secrets of the cult. You could use the it as an Ur cult training field.

1 - supplicant - one teacher
3rd - initiate - small circle of teachers
5th - circle member - responsible for a small number of supplicants
9th - ....


This has a much better feel.

Does disable device still fit as a skill? How about diplomacy instead?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Skills are tricky. I mostly thought of what I would want NPC occultists to be able to do, and not do. For instance, I would want them to be able to spy on people, and impersonate people (or at least pretend to be of classes/professions other than what they were). So hide, move silently and disguise should all be class skills. But I want PCs to be able to infiltrate cult gatherings, maybe in disguise, without being automatically detected by someone present, so I didn't want spot or listen to be class skills. I wondered about including sense motive, but I thought that if the occultists didn't have it, it would guarantee that PCs would be able to lead them around by the nose, and I didn't want that.

With respect to diplomacy, I think that might be a little too open and above board. Occultists get what they want in covert and devious ways, not in straightforward negotiating. So I see occultists as tending to use deception (bluff) rather than diplomacy. I thought about including Intimidate as a class skill as well, but decided to leave that to the fighters, barbarians and true rogues. Forgery would fit, but that is exclusive to rogues; if a character wants to have a knack for it that's fine, but I won't make it a class skill.

I want occultists to be able to do a little break and enter if need be, and so I gave them open lock, disable device and search. Skill with mechanisms and fine tools should be up right up their alley.

Escape artist is a bit of throw in. It means that a captured cultist might get away from his PC captors, which seems like a good idea. And occultists borrow a lot of abilities from rogues and monks, and escape artist is a skill that both those classes have. Although... based on that logic I should add perform and tumble, I suppose (skills shared by both monks and rogues), but I want some occultists to be *failed* members of the various PC classes, and so they should lack some of the distinctive skills those classes have. I.e. without perform it is clear why they would get kicked out of bard school. Tumble... well, I just didn't want them tumbling all over the battle-field.

And of course with only 4 skill points per level I don't want to swamp them with options. I think the current list should allow all kinds of interesting possibilities and combos to be implemented, but the variety is not *too* broad. Comparable to that of a monk, I'd say. Anyways, if a particular skill is key to the concept of an occultist character, then a knack should be a good way of fulfilling it.

Note that I don't regard characters as being blank slates that the appropriate training fills in with the desired character class. They have a lot of pre-existing quirks and talents that training attempts to shape. I view it as perfectly possible that three friends can begin training with a thieves guild, and one will come out with a level of rogue, another with a level of expert, and the third end up with a level of occultist.

Similarly it wouldn't surprise me if warriors, fighters, rangers and barbarians would all come out of fighter school, depending on the talents, interests and backgrounds of the students.

 

[Sanackranib]

THIS SEEMS MORE BALANCED THEN THE 1ST DRAFT.
I still feel that you should have them progress as sorc's or bards. also having ALL saves as favored is one of the "broken" elements of the monk class IMO.
I can see giving them Ref and Wil because you want the stealthy aspect and they are firm in thier belief system, but why more hardy then normal?
also intimidate and bluff I like as class skills better then diplomacy for the reasons you listed. you also should consider a spell level cap. they are not and never should be as good as a wizard - this is after all essentually an NPC class. however I like the progress you have made and feel it will soon be both balanced and playable at this rate.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Mechanical considerations constrain me; I want this class to feed into the Ur-Priest. Ur-Priest has a +3 fort and +3 Will pre-requisite. So the Fort and Will saves have to stay good. For the same reason it needs Bluff, spellcraft and several knowledges as class skills.

Now, good fort saves are part of a package- it fits thematically with the presence of mettle and the (high level) immunity to poisons and disease. In the same way a good will save goes with significant spellcasting ability, and a good reflex save goes with light armor and abilities like evasion.

You think they should start casting spells at first level, but with a sorcerer or bard progression? Do you think they are too weak at low levels, then, without spellcasting?

An occultist will have more intelligence than a rogue, so I would think that it is just a little weaker than a rogue at first level (too few skill points, fewer skills, but better saves). But a wizard is quite a bit weaker than a rogue for the first few levels, so I think that is fine. And I think the occultist catches up once it has spells. Though of course it is 3 levels behind a wizard, lacks the wizard's bonus feats, and has to sacrifice a school.

How do you see the power curve of the class developing? What features make it difficult to play?