Heighten feat.

[Aryes]

If you empower a spell making it two spell levels higher, and you also have the heighten feat, could you just capriciously make it heightened to that level as well?

I.E. Magic Missile cast empowered as a 3rd level spell, could you then go ahead and make it a heightened 3rd level spell?

Thx

 

[Jairami]

While you can heighten and empower a spell, the benefit for heighten (increased DC) does not carry over to the increased levels that you paid for the empower effect.

You can heighten a magic missile to a third level spell (which would be a bad example because it doesn't have a save to increase it's DC), and then empower it, requiring a fifth level spell slot. But even though you have the heighten feat, it is still considered a 3rd level spell (the level you heightened it to) for the purposes of penetrating a glove of invulnerability, or the number of spell levels it takes for spell turning to effect it, and for the DC of the saving throw if it had one.

 

[Artoomis]

Here is what happens if you want to Heighten and Empower a Magic Missile.

First. we review:

Multiple Metamagic Feats on a Spell: A spellcaster can use multiple metamagic feats on a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative.

Heighten:

Benefit: A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a minor globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level. The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.

and

Empower:

Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. An empowered spell deals half again as much damage as normal, cures half again as many hit points, affects half again as many targets, etc., as appropriate. Saving throws and opposed rolls (such as the one the character makes when the character casts dispel magic) are not affected. Spells without random variables are not affected. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

Sorry for all the quotes, but sometimes these discussions go on for a long time before someone remembers to actually look at the rules.

So, a Heightened to 3rd level and Empowered Magic Missile will be cast at 5th level. No "free" Heighten, sorry.

Each Metamagic effect is applied against the base spell (Sage clarification) and the spell level changes are cumulative.

 

[Aryes]

Cool, good answer.

Thanks.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Good work, Artoomis.

The confusion stems from using the term level in two different contexts.

A normal Magic Missile is a 1st level spell requiring a 1st level spell slot.

An Empowered Magic Missile is a 1st level spell requiring a 3rd level spell slot.

A doubly Heightened Magic Missile is a 3rd level spell requiring a 3rd level spell slot.

A doubly Heightend Empowered Magic Missile is a 3rd level spell requiring a 5th level spell slot.

Unfornately the core rules do not use language that clarifies the differences between a spell's level and the spell slot level needed to cast it.

 

[kreynolds]

Unfornately the core rules do not use language that clarifies the differences between a spell's level and the spell slot level needed to cast it.

I haven't had a problem understanding it, but mabye that's just me.