Hello, I am lawyer with a PSA: almost everyone is wrong about the OGL and SRD. Clearing up confusion.

Burt Baccara

Explorer
"De-authorise" doesn't mean anything in the abstract, and I would be very surprised if that phrase appears in v 1.1. (It is not part of the leak that I saw: We got an official leak of One D&D OGL 1.1! Watch Our Discussion And Reactions!).

If v 1.1 describes v 1.0/1.0a as not an authorised licence agreement, that will have meaning only in the context of the rest of the contract, which will explain the significance of a licence being authorised or not authorised.

Trying to guess what terms WotC will actually insist on is commercial speculation, not legal speculation. From the legal point of view, they could do what you suggest, or they could make it a requirement of entering into the new licence that a party cease to distribue any work licensed under the current OGL. I don't see that either would pose any legal problem.
Layman here, however looking at the www.opengamingfoundation.org site using the wayback machine on archive.org shows there were early drafts posted for comment (
example: OPEN GAME LICENSE (Simplified), Version .02). Was the intent of "authorized" to differentiate between the draft version and a version actually put in use?
 

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pemerton

Legend
personally I don't really see how Paizo's Golarion can work without the OGL. If James Bond is copyright protected (per MGM v Honda) then surely Aboleths are copyright protected too. Paizo would need to go over Golarion scrubbing every unique-to-D&D monster taken from the 3e SRD. Spells and magic items would need a look too. Character class design & structure is iffy, IMO. There's a huge amount there that the OGL shields from liability.
I'm mostly just QFT, but also want to elaborate a little bit.

I think some of this discussion is really suffering from a lack of focus on the clear legal issues, and associated risks.

Also, some posters are writing as if this is mostly about corporate or commercial morality, and as if the OGL was a type of gratuity that WotC bestowed, thus creating trust and confidence; and is now cruelly removing in an unfair way. But that sort of moralised framework isn't useful for analysis, in my view. The OGL was a framework for vesting both WotC and the other parties to it with contractual obligations, contractual entitlements, and contractual powers.

With that framework for analysis in mind: a lot of people, it seems to me, have misinterpreted the legal significance of the leaked information because (to be a bit blunt) they don't understand the legal framework that the OGL operates within - ie basic principle of private law agreement-making and interpretation. Because they read the OGL as a statute, rather than a private law instrument, they then read the leaked stuff from WotC through that lens and see "Oh no - the OGL is going to be 'de-authorised'!"

Whereas once you look at the leaks through a private law lens, the most natural conjecture is that WotC wants to try an alternative but somewhat parallel path to the GSL - they still want a quasi-open copyright licence with a real SRD as its subject-matter, rather than a trademark and trade-dress licence (which is basically what the GSL was). This will require a parallel notion to OGC (they seem to have settled for the rather boring Licensed Content) and also a parallel clause to the current section 9 (allowing new licences to be issued so that publishers can "race to the top"); but for the royalty scheme to work, they will need to wall off this new ecosystem from the existing one (where the "race to the top" would always take publishers to the royalty-free OGL v 1.0/1.0a) and therefore will need a provision in the new licence that makes it clear that the old licence is not authorised for the distribution etc of new-licence Licensed Content.

It also seems possible, likely even though not certain, that they will have a GSL-style "poison pill" that means once you come into the new ecosystem your promise to leave the old one behind, to some extent at least, perhaps altogether.

And it seems pretty clear that they will revoke their standing offer under the current licence in respect of the current SRD.

This does create some legal question-marks, like the status of existing licensees authority to issue future sub-licences in respect of that current SRD content. We can put forward plausible conjectures (ie that that power survives the revocation of the offer, because it is part of the grant under the existing licence) but given that @bmcdaniel said it's not clear, I'm not prepared to be anything like definitive on this.

I think we can also say it's unlikely that WotC is going to try and terminate, unilaterally, all existing agreements, given that it seems to lack any power to do so. Though the OP disagrees, and so "unlikely" isn't the same as "it's certain they won't". But if they tried to do this, an existing licensee can sit tight on the rights they are confident they still enjoy, and wait for WotC to commence against them. And then plead their licence in their defence.

The idea that the best way forward is to run away from the OGL - which in fact, as you explain, opens up a far greater risk of genuine infringement of WotC's IP claims - is in my view rather dubious.
 

pemerton

Legend
Layman here, however looking at the www.opengamingfoundation.org site using the wayback machine on archive.org shows there were early drafts posted for comment (
example: OPEN GAME LICENSE (Simplified), Version .02). Was the intent of "authorized" to differentiate between the draft version and a version actually put in use?
I don't believe so.

The word "authorised" means, in the abstract, "done with authority". In the OGL, it appears in the second sentence of section 9, after the first sentence refers to WotC or its agents issuing new licences (so-called "updates"). The word authorised in the second sentence is harking back to that first sentence - an authorised version is a licence produced by WotC or its agents.
 

Enrahim2

Adventurer
The issue of whether or not it is a "version" within the meaning of section 9 of the OGL v 1.0/1.0a will depend on its terms. Given what WotC has said in its press release, and given the leak, I think it is pretty clear that v 1.1 is not an "update" to anything. It is a distinct licence that will not be part of the OGL v 1.0/1.0a ecosystem.
If not taking into consideration the highly problematic use of the word "deauthorized": What is there there in the press release/leak that make you think wizards do not want to be part of the ogl1.0a ecosystem in the sense of allowing things to be published under 1.1 using material from 1.0a?
 

I have a simple question about the requirement of adding the term irrevocable to make a license like the GPL or OGL truly unable to be revoked. What is the court case that decided this in various common law jurisdictions?

I was told that this was an addition added only in the late 2000s.

And if that was the case, why? What were the circumstances that led the courts to rule this way? Because it is my understanding courts don't like to create sweeping changes. Instead, if they find a corner situation not handled by existing jurisprudence they tend to craft a ruling to handle that situation and no more.
 
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S'mon

Legend
This does create some legal question-marks, like the status of existing licensees authority to issue future sub-licences in respect of that current SRD content. We can put forward plausible conjectures (ie that that power survives the revocation of the offer, because it is part of the grant under the existing licence) but given that @bmcdaniel said it's not clear, I'm not prepared to be anything like definitive on this.

Given the wording of the OGL I'm a bit more confident than you that the right to sub-licence for existing licencees survives termination of the offer to licence. Certainly that is what the creators of the OGL intended, and I believe that is what they achieved. The OGL does of course say that sub-licences survive termination of a licence. I'm not sure if bmcdaniel analysed that section.

Certainly I admit that from his posts he seems much more of an expert on US contract law than you or I :) - and if he came out strongly against that position for some reason, I'd take that seriously. But I got the impression he simply wasn't speaking on that matter.
 
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Xyxox

Hero
I have a simple question about the requirement of adding the term irrevocable to make a license like the GPL or OGL truly unable to be revoked. What is the court case that decided this in various common law jurisdictions?

I was told that this was an addition added only in the late 2000s.
EVERY early version of open source software licensing used the term perpetual. Ryan Dancey and WotC/TSR chose to use that licensing as a model for the OGL. As things changed, attorneys determined the use of the word irrevocable was a better way to define the license lives forever and cannot be revoked. This happened with GPL v3 on June 29, 2007 which is the earliest use of the term I can find in open source software licensing. The term perpetual used in earlier versions of the licensing has still held up, though.
 

pemerton

Legend
If not taking into consideration the highly problematic use of the word "deauthorized"
Who used this word? In what I have seen, the leak identifies as one term of the new OGL that the existing OGL is not an authorised licence agreement.

I've posted not far upthread (posts 560 and 562) what I think the most natural way is to make sense of that.

What is there there in the press release/leak that make you think wizards do not want to be part of the ogl1.0a ecosystem in the sense of allowing things to be published under 1.1 using material from 1.0a?
Publishers who have licensed their work under the OGL v 1.0a oblige future licensees to conform to the terms of that licence. Section 9 allows a future licensee to use any authorised licence to use OGC. So the only way to bring OGC into the new scheme that I can see is to make v 1.1 an authorised licence for existing section 9 purposes. But that would then mean that existing licensees (plus future sub-licensees of those existing licensees) could use new OGC under the existing OGC (and presumably would do so, so as to avoid the royalty obligation).

So to me it seems that WotC must create a new ecosystem. I'm calling it (quasi)open because in structural terms it seems they want it to work something like a viral open licence, but with reporting and royalty obligations that are not part of an open licence scheme.
 

S'mon

Legend
I have a simple question about the requirement of adding the term irrevocable to make a license like the GPL or OGL truly unable to be revoked. What is the court case that decided this in various common law jurisdictions?

I was told that this was an addition added only in the late 2000s.

Despite searching, I've not been able to find a clear US case on this. Indeed instead I've actually found US sources referencing the UK case I did find - BMS v AB Agri (2010). This decision seems well within mainstream jurisprudence. It says that the meaning of Perpetual depends on the context, and that Perpetual does not always mean irrevocable. I can see why this would encourage people to put Irrevocable in their contract drafts.

Here's the abstract I got from Westlaw:

BMS Computer Solutions Ltd v AB Agri Ltd
No Substantial Judicial Treatment
Court
Chancery Division
Judgment Date
10 March 2010
Where Reported
[2010] EWHC 464 (Ch)
[2010] 3 WLUK 294
Judgment
Subject
Contracts
Other related subjects
Information technology
Keywords
Licensing agreements; Technical support; Termination; Variation
Judge
Sales J
Counsel
For the applicant: Vernon Flynn QC, Jonathan Hill.
For the respondent: Neil Kitchener QC, Philip Roberts.
Solicitor
For the applicant: Greene & Greene (Bury St Edmunds).
For the respondent: Addleshaw Goddard.

Case Digest
Summary
A variation to a software licensing agreement to make it perpetual rather than of limited duration extended the original agreement
rather than superseded it. The termination provisions in the original agreement had not been expressly deleted and they continued
to have effect.


Abstract
The applicant computer software business (B) applied for summary judgment on two points in a claim it had brought against
the respondent licensee of its software (L).
B had entered into a licence agreement licensing a predecessor company of L to use a software package for its animal feed
mill. The licence agreement included provisions as to its termination and stated that it would expire after 10 years unless it was
terminated earlier. On the same date, the parties entered into a technical support agreement, which also contained provisions as
to its termination. The licence agreement required the support agreement to be kept in place, otherwise the licence agreement
would terminate. By a variation agreement some years later, the licence and support agreements were novated to take effect
as licence and support agreements between B and L. The variation agreement stated that the licence would be extended to
be a "perpetual licence usable ... at all [L's] operations ... up to a maximum aggregate annual tonnage". It further provided
for payments to be made in respect of tonnage above the maximum, and that new licence and support agreements were to be
negotiated for all non-organic tonnage growth. L gave notice to terminate the support agreement as it was developing its own
software, but it asserted that its licence to use B's software continued, contrary to B's contention that continuation of the licence
was conditional on the support agreement continuing. L had also used the software at an additional mill without negotiating
new licence and support agreements. The annual tonnage of compound feed of L's operations remained less than the maximum.
B made its application on the issues of (i) whether, on the construction of the three agreements, the licence had been terminated,
notwithstanding its description in the variation agreement as "perpetual"; (ii) whether L was required to obtain a further licence
in respect of the additional mill.
Held
Application granted.
(1) The licence had been terminated. "Perpetual" had different shades of meaning, including "incapable of being brought to an
end" and "of indefinite duration, but subject to any contractual provisions governing termination". The latter interpretation of
"perpetual" in the variation agreement was correct. There was therefore no incompatibility between the variation agreement
and the requirement to keep the support agreement in place, so that requirement continued to have effect. Therefore, when L
terminated the support agreement, it also terminated the licence. The variation agreement had plainly not been intended wholly
to displace the licence agreement: it stated that the licence would be extended rather than replaced.
That indicated that the
licence referred to in the variation agreement was subject to the same termination provisions as in the licence agreement. The
fact that the variation agreement did not refer to the termination provisions in the licence and support agreements indicated that
those provisions were intended to continue in force. Further, the termination provisions were very important terms: if the parties
had intended to delete them, they would have referred to them in terms to make that intention clear rather than leaving it to be
inferred from the use of "perpetual", a term of uncertain meaning. There was also a clear commercial need for the termination
provisions to continue to operate since otherwise there would be no mechanism to bring potentially onerous obligations under
the agreement to end. (2) Use of the software to produce feed above the maximum tonnage was clearly contemplated as being
authorised under the variation agreement, since it had made provision for the additional payments. The maximum tonnage figure
did not therefore provide a limit on the extent of the licence granted by B when L's business grew or was added to. It would
not be commercially realistic to suppose that the parties intended that there should be no protection for B if L expanded its
activities. It was possible and necessary to interpret the variation agreement by giving it its ordinary and natural meaning so as
to require new licence and support agreements to be negotiated for all non-organic tonnage growth.
BMS Computer Solutions Ltd v AB Agri Ltd, 2010 WL 783753 (2010)
© 2023 Thomson Reuters. 2
 

pemerton

Legend
The OGL does of course say that sub-licences survive termination of a licence. I'm not sure if bmcdaniel analysed that section.
It does, and I don't think he did.

But my view is that it's highly arguable that the reference there to survival is only a reference to survival in the event of termination for breach. Again, I don't think this is definitive! But I'm thinking about arguments in similar cases of construction of public law instruments (statutes and constitutions), and I don't think there is anything distinctive about the public law context that would preclude those sorts of arguments being brought to bear here.

Certainly I admit that from his posts he seems much more of an expert on US contract law than you or I :) - and if he came out strongly against that position for some reason, I'd take that seriously. But I got the impression he simply wasn't speaking on that matter.
Fair enough. I'm just being cautious! And not making strong claims when I'm not fully confident.

I like to think this gives those strong claims I do make - like rejection of the whole fraud notion in the other thread, and my doubts that any wholesale revocation is possible - more weight!
 

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