Hello, I am lawyer with a PSA: almost everyone is wrong about the OGL and SRD. Clearing up confusion.

Staffan

Legend
In English law the validity of a clause in strict Contract law is unaffected by whether it's fair & equitable, except in Consumer contracts and exclusion clauses. Neither applies here.

The termination clause is read in context with the rest of the document. Typically specific terms tends to beat more general terms, eg imagine a contract that says:

"1. This contract is perpetual and irrevocable.
2. Notwithstanding 1, this contract may be terminated for breach of term X."

The court will normally still allow termination for breach of term X under clause 2, despite the wording of clause 1.
As I understand the specific case, it was more like:

1. This contract lasts for X years.
2. This contract can be terminated under circumstances Y.

Then a new contract was made which said:
Replace 1. with "1. This contract is perpetual."

What the court held was that since the new contract didn't say anything about 2, the old termination clause still applied.
 

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pemerton

Legend
The draft was a license produced by WotC or its agents. Draft v. authorized seems like the language used to indicate which licenses are available for use and which were released for other purposes, such as discussion. This is of course based on the license being open.

Again, laymen here and basing the above on the specific language choices on v.2 and v1
My view is that a draft licence is not a licence. WotC and its agents actually have to have intended to issue a licence, not just promulgate a draft. Like a marriage in a TV soap opera is not a marriage, even if all the magic words are said and even if the actor playing the celebrant happens to be a licensed celebrant in real life.
 

Enrahim2

Adventurer
The only way I can see to enable existing OGC to be licensed via new v 1.1 would be for v 1.1 to create rights in respect of OGC. But at that point it would be an authorised version of OGL v 1.0/1.0a within the meaning of their section 9, which would mean existing licensees could publish new content under the old licence.
You still seem to get the wording backwards. According to 1.0a section 9 you can always use content using any version of ogl independent of their outhorization status. Hence defining 1.1 as authorized or not have no bearing on if you are allowed to use 1.1 material when you publish something under 1.0a lisence according to section 9.

However the "authorization" of the license you for your work when distributing/copying/modifying is of importance. Hence the only way for 1.1 to call it self legaly an "update" to ogl1.0a (which is a concept clearly in 1.0a section 9 what entails), which they do in the leak you suspect being a summary (despite containing the exact quots given in the Gizmodo leak) while preventing cross lisence use to 1.0a would be to either somehow revoke 1.0a (which would also prevent anyone including themselves to use 1.0a material as source, as section 9 would no longer be valid), or manipulate the meaning of the keyword "authorized" of 1.0a section 9.
 

pemerton

Legend
And what supplies that context if it is something else other than what the terms of the license says.
Context can be pretty varied.

There might be a contract that refers to the licence. This contract might set out expressly, or establish by implication, circumstances in which the licence can be revoked or simply comes to an end.

There might be an established relationship within which the licence is granted, and that might inform the understanding of the rights of the licensor and licensee.

There might be established industry practices which were presupposed by the parties to the licence.

Etc.

So in software, when creating something that is called a subclass, it means that certain features and functionality are inherited from a parent class. As far as contracts goes, if I include an explicit termination clause is there some feature or functionality that the contract can "inherit" that can also affect termination under current jurisprudence?
The whole instrument has to be read and interpreted.

One upshot of that might be a recognition that a particular clause has been drafted a certain way in order to ensure it operates in the way that an earlier court case adjudicating the same drafting held the earlier clause would operate. But this won't always mean the new clause works the same way, because the overall content of the instrument might be different.

wouldn't the explicit Termination Clause in Section 13 override the implicit consequences of deauthorization? Just as the UK court held, that a explicit Termination Clause overridden the Perpetual license grant?
Overriding is not the right word, I think. Rather, the presence of the termination clause helps establish the meaning of the clause that refers to a "perpetual" licence.

I've posted a bit about section 13, including not too far upthread in reply to S'mon.

Section 13 does not expressly state that it is the sole basis for termination/revocation. So to interpret it in that fashion would require drawing an implication from its inclusion, and from the failure to include any other reference to revocation or termination, that it is the sole basis.

I agree with @S'mon that in a thread like this it's not really feasible to canvass the arguments for drawing such an implication. We would need to consider in detail what exactly WotC licensed in its SRD, the full technical character of the powers granted to licensees under the licence, what industry understandings are about revocation of licensing contracts and how such revocation interacts with granted rights, etc. I think the OP overstates the case for revocability at will to quite an extent; but I want to be careful not to overstate the case in the other direction. I have an intuition that section 13 is the sole basis for termination, but an intuition isn't an argument!

After reading S'mon's and @Steel_Wind's posts I'm more persuaded that the stronger argument is not a technical reading of section 13, but an estoppel-type argument based on WotC's encouragement, via its FAQ but also I think via individual communications from Ryan Dancey (which I think have more significance here) and also by its acquiescence for 20-odd years, of an understanding that it cannot unilaterally revoke the licensing agreements it has entered into.

CODA: Here's an idea I just had to strengthen the argument that there is no power of revocation outside section 13. Section 9 is labelled "updating the licence" but doesn't really deal with updates at all. Rather, it enables new variations of the licence to be issued by WotC, and gives parties a choice of which variant (including the original) to use. So if WotC has no power even to unilaterally update, does it make sense that it nevertheless has a power to unilaterally revoke? Furthermore, if parties could unilaterally revoke, that would render this conferral of a power on other parties to choose their licence potentially nugatory, as the exercise of that power could be thwarted by the OGC contributor simply revoking.

I don't think the above argument is anywhere close to a knock-down one: it's just something I came up with in the past 5 minutes or so. But hopefully it gives you (and others) an idea of how arguments about legal interpretation work, and the sorts of ideas that will figure in resolving any legal contest over the existence of a power to unilaterally revoke/terminate.
 

Enrahim2

Adventurer
Even if revoking the "authorized" status of 1.0a (limited to only this meaning and use of the term), it could still be considered a version of this lisence per section 9.
I don't know what the bolded "it" refers to.
Even if revoking the Even if revoking the "authorized" status of 1.0a (limited to only this meaning and use of the term), 1.0a could still be considered a version of this lisence per section 9.
 

I can't really answer this as it's a bit technical & the kind of thing the case would hinge on.
Again thanks. And one more thing about the case you found, of course it has to be about f****ng software. I love doing my job and software development but holy cow all the IP issues we cause.
 

pemerton

Legend
Even if revoking the Even if revoking the "authorized" status of 1.0a (limited to only this meaning and use of the term), 1.0a could still be considered a version of this lisence per section 9.
As I said, it is not in doubt that v 1.0a is authorised under its own section 9. Anything else would be contradictory, because section 9 would cease to have any force and hence the notion of authorisation wouldn't even be in play.
 

There is no doubt that OGL v 1.0a counts as an authorised version of the licence for the purposes of section 9 of itself. If WotC want to stop publishers participating in both the old and new ecosystems they will need an express "poison pill" provision similar to the one in an early iteration of the GSL.
Assuming the attached is accurate (it's apparently a Q&A rather than the text of the license itself), how do we reconcile it with the idea that WotC would need a poison pill in OGL 1.1. This appears to explicitly contemplate what happens when a publisher does not accept the terms of OGL 1.1. If you've already addressed this (likely, IME), just point me to it.
OGL 1.1.png
 

Enrahim2

Adventurer
As I said, it is not in doubt that v 1.0a is authorised under its own section 9. Anything else would be contradictory, because section 9 would cease to have any force and hence the notion of authorisation wouldn't even be in play.
Now you are mixing in other more common meanings of the term "authorised" as far as I can see? (A fully reasonable one, but my suspicion is that wizards big headache now is that they didn't think properly trough that common use of a word us of importance in law, and rather tried to treat is as a magic the gathering keyword they would be completely free to assign any meaning they wanted independent of any everyday use. I strongly suspect their big strategy was to make a one-way passage from 1.0a to 1.1 a using this mechanism. And the reason it is not published yet and they have not commented is that they have realised that this attempt had much more far reaching potential legal ramifications than they had thought. They might have repeated that 1.0a was revokable so much that they didnt think that "no longer authorised" could actually from a legal standpoint be reasonably construed as an attempt at revoking it. Sorting out this legal mess that possibly their entire strategy might hinge on might take a while..)
 


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