Helmets: Under-Used but Over-Important

[Crimson Longinus]

Have RPGs always worked that way for you? Have you always played with figures and terrain, rather than theatre-of-the-mind?

I play mostly theatre-of-the-mind, but things look like something on that theatre stage.

 

[GMMichael]

Do you mean the fact that you have the shield equipped, or tracking how much damage the shield takes?

I was asking about this:

Unless the system tracks hit locations it doesn't matter and I don't even want it to matter. Your armour bonus, AC, whatever just measures the overall protection the armour offers and there is no need to track protection of head separately any more than the protection of the left foot.

I understand if a game doesn't care about specific pieces of armor, so the question was, restated: does the game not care about shields, too?

Crimson's answer was: depends on the game, especially if the game is picky about how many hands you're using at one time.

One thing it boils down to: fighting without a helmet is foolhardy, unless your opponent's weapon is padded. So why do fantasy characters do it so often? Why aren't there more rules about helmets in RPGs?

One answer: because my character's hairdo is cool, especially when it's bloody!

 

[Bilharzia]

That's just weird. This is not a computer game with a 'hide helmet' button. Either they wear a helmet and is is visible or they don't and it isn't. Handwaving the mechanical benefits of the helmet is far less jarring than handwaving its visibility.

so...using your imagination to imagine a character's hair is "weird" but not being able to play with helmets because you can't imagine your character without their hair flowing is not....ok! ....

 

[Bilharzia]

One thing it boils down to: fighting without a helmet is foolhardy, unless your opponent's weapon is padded. So why do fantasy characters do it so often? Why aren't there more rules about helmets in RPGs?

Because helmets aren't that interesting? As I've said, they aren't very dynamic, whereas things that you use with your hands are, like swords and shields since you take action with them. Helmets and other armour generally get hit, and sometimes get damaged, that's about it.

eg. to take "Beyond the Black River" Beyond the Black River

"Helmet" is referenced 6 times. Five of those mentions are in sentences that describe the wearer, once a helmet is mentioned in an action - when the helmet gets knocked off Conan.
"Sword" is referenced 36 times. Of those mentions, over twenty are actions taken with the sword. Objects that are used in actions are interesting and important, objects used in descriptions less so.
You don't do much with a helmet, other than be protected by it, which is nice, but not that exciting.

Conan doesn't use a shield, because he's dope and doesn't need one.

 

[pemerton]

One thing it boils down to: fighting without a helmet is foolhardy, unless your opponent's weapon is padded. So why do fantasy characters do it so often? Why aren't there more rules about helmets in RPGs?

Here are some fantasy RPGs I know that have rules that make helmets matter:

Gygax's AD&D (the rules are in the DMG; I don't know how many people used them);

Rolemaster;

RuneQuest;

Burning Wheel.​

I don't think it's that common to not worry about them.

It may be the case that D&D from 2nd ed AD&D onwards hasn't cared about them, in which case there's the answer to your question: most FRPGing doesn't care about helmets because most FRPGing uses the current edition of D&D, which since 1989 hasn't cared about helmets.

 

[zarionofarabel]

Here are some fantasy RPGs I know that have rules that make helmets matter:

Gygax's AD&D (the rules are in the DMG; I don't know how many people used them);​

​

Rolemaster;​

​

RuneQuest;​

​

Burning Wheel.​

I don't think it's that common to not worry about them.

It may be the case that D&D from 2nd ed AD&D onwards hasn't cared about them, in which case there's the answer to your question: most FRPGing doesn't care about helmets because most FRPGing uses the current edition of D&D, which since 1989 hasn't cared about helmets.

I can't but agree that most TTRPGs don't care about helmets because they don't use hit locations.

The use of hit locations and the way combat is modelled, especially how damage is dealt with is why I love Mythras so much.

Finally a system where shields are one of the most important items you can have in combat. A helmet is a must, and spears are arguably better than swords. It's the only game I have encountered where the reality of real life melee combat seems to be the basis of the combat engine. Every other game seems to model their combat engine on what we see in non-realistic action movies.

I'm not knocking games that want to simulate non-realistic action movie combat, it is obviously the preferred method. I just like Mythras's genuine attempt to make their combat engine somewhat realistic. It makes combat scary and dangerous!

 

[Bilharzia]

"How did you get away?" he asked presently.

Conan tapped his mail-shirt and helmet.

"If more borderers would wear harness there'd be fewer skulls hanging on the altar-huts."

 

[pemerton]

The use of hit locations and the way combat is modelled, especially how damage is dealt with is why I love Mythras so much.

Finally a system where shields are one of the most important items you can have in combat. A helmet is a must, and spears are arguably better than swords. It's the only game I have encountered where the reality of real life melee combat seems to be the basis of the combat engine. Every other game seems to model their combat engine on what we see in non-realistic action movies.

I'm not knocking games that want to simulate non-realistic action movie combat, it is obviously the preferred method. I just like Mythras's genuine attempt to make their combat engine somewhat realistic. It makes combat scary and dangerous!

You might find Burning Wheel interesting. It has a combat system that is in some respects reminiscent of RuneQuest/Mythras.

Shields and armour (including helmets) certainly matter. And weapon length is an important consideration in the positioning mini-game that is part of the full melee combat system. (That said, my PC uses a mace - rather short - rather than a spear, because of its Versus Armour rating.)

 

[zarionofarabel]

You might find Burning Wheel interesting. It has a combat system that is in some respects reminiscent of RuneQuest/Mythras.

Shields and armour (including helmets) certainly matter. And weapon length is an important consideration in the positioning mini-game that is part of the full melee combat system. (That said, my PC uses a mace - rather short - rather than a spear, because of its Versus Armour rating.)

Love BW, though my usage of it has been limited to a short lived campaign and test runs on the sub systems. BW did teach me about the importance of having the PCs having goals to help drive the narrative, I wish more systems had that in the rules. It also taught me to Let It Ride!

 

[MNblockhead]

Each to their own, but I've long moved away from trying to increase verisimilitude via mechanics. I know that this is about helmets, but I'm thinking guns. God, there is little that annoys me more than a game with detailed rules for fire arms and listening to a bunch of players who have never held or shot a firearm argue about the rules and what they can do. And of course, I don't want to be "that guy" to crap all over the rules and the players' silly notions about how firearms work...because I hate it when my friends who are veterans make my ignorance known. Well, actually, I do like to talk about it, just not in the middle of a dramatic combat scene.

I much prefer to keep the rules abstract enough that we can leave a lot to our imaginations. I also enjoy fantasy because a lot of "realism" can be hand-waved by what would be supernatural abilities when compared to real life.