D&D 3E/3.5 Help creating new Classes (3.5)

[Naoki00_]

I've been asked to create a few new classes for a game of mine and while I've been successful on most of them I'm starting to have very few idea's on what to do with the last 4. The campaign itself is a very low magic campaign for the most part, though that is only because of where the players are at the moment, the main enemy of their country and thus the players, are a Vampire nation that does possess magic, other then that it is very much a medieval style game with many steam punk elements such as black powder guns and simple granados, though nothing as reliable as a crossbow or sword usually. The players as is are all level 6, with one being a Homebrew class I already made called a Revolutionary(think of a bards inspire courage and Skirmish damage and leadership roles), a Rogue, and a Marshal (I think at least, it's from Tome of battle and uses the white raven stuff a lot), they are all human and will likely stay simply human, unless a class or story plot says otherwise.

The classes I need are prestige, so only ten levels to them, but for the last four I only have a very baseline idea such as name and concept but I don't know what else to do with them, so any ideas based on thier names and descriptions would be helpful, you don't have to post an idea for all of them unless you have one for each.

Fiend Hunter- Inspired slightly by the diablo 3 demon hunter, this class would be based around the idea of exiled templars who istead of using holy might to combat their vampiric or other enemies, ingest small amount of vampiric blood to gain temporary powers and traits of their enemies to use, this comes at a price of slowly tainting them closer to becoming the realy thing if they fall pray to it's call.
Weapons- dual wielded crossbows or swords most likely, lightly armored and similar to a ranger type of look


Warpriest(think it's already a class but can't think of a better name)- A cleric but with no 'magic' they use martial skill with weapons and firearms blessed by holy sources, such as a mace made from a holy relic or bullets made a silver or containing holy water. A kind of armored constantine figure that unlike to Repent-or-die templars, would be more down to earth in both mind and abilities, being not only able to fight with the best of soldiers but also protect them from the unknown, may have medical knowledge to aid in healing and sickness.
Weapons- most likely wheel lock firearms(some of the most advanced we have, takes forever to reload though), maces and other martial weapons, and medium to heavy armor though no shield, possibly carrys a holy book with other attributes?


Ironclad Charger- I'm not sure if there is a class based soley around charging, but thats what this ones idea is about. encased in a massive plate suit and bulldozing through hordes of enemies as they hack and slash things in two or just crush them under foot, something of a juggernaut feel though within balance, perhaps something like getting powerful build at level 10?
weapons- big, heavy, and hard hitting, maybe a shield for extra trampling potential, though maybe not spiked for balance issues.


Blacksun Ravager- A class for vampiric enemies and NPC's, this one would be focused into a lightly armored and highly mobile fighter that would use either illusions or similar to distract the enemy for them to swoop in (maybe literally as some have wings) and land a sneak attack, very little in the way of long term defense and all about getting out of attack range before moving back in to counter, though may have to make checks to at least give the players a chance, possibly a working vampire/monk idea, these guys also belong to a hyper religious group.
weapons- light and fast, maybe even only focus on natural weapons.

 

[Rampant]

Ok numbers 2 and 3 aren't worth building a class around, 2 is just a fighter who wants to be a paladin, and 3 is just a fighter build.

For the other two, how close are you sticking to MM vamps, because everyone seems to have their own house rules and sometimes that matters.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Are you and yours having difficulty accomplishing what you want to do with the existing classes?

 

[Naoki00_]

Ok numbers 2 and 3 aren't worth building a class around, 2 is just a fighter who wants to be a paladin, and 3 is just a fighter build.

For the other two, how close are you sticking to MM vamps, because everyone seems to have their own house rules and sometimes that matters.

firstly to be a bit blunt, thats an opinion, I'm grateful for it however. 2 and 3 fit perfectly in our setting which would never have a cleric (WAY too much magic and not much flare fluff wise) or a paladin (their called templars in this world and have no divine power other then having access to holy water and the like.) and how is it a fighter build when it does something much more specific then a fighter? we don't use 'fighter builds' usually, because it doesn't feel very entertaining, where as they wanted a class that reflected the idea of a Juggernaut like character a bit more solidly, with additional skills that aren't just charge feats.

As for the vampires, their mostly the same how they are in the book, minus the bits about water and most of the spell-likes, they have spider climb, and thats it.

Are you and yours having difficulty accomplishing what you want to do with the existing classes?

well we try to not use as much of the base stuff as possible in this campaign, mostly because they don't fit the setting hardly at all, for example the only magic anyone even can access is scrying, and that takes 10 people meditating for a hour to do, but also because we just want to use our own stuff in this one for the fun of it, the system is great, but having played a large number of classes, we like to invent along the way, coupled with the fact that we aren't using magic or magic items (hardly even enhancement bonuses), which are what normal dnd and it's classes are made around, it's just more fun to make classes balanced around our playstyle then it is to just re-do all the CR's of stuff which is already a bit off from the different style of play.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

well we try to not use as much of the base stuff as possible in this campaign, mostly because they don't fit the setting hardly at all, for example the only magic anyone even can access is scrying, and that takes 10 people meditating for a hour to do, but also because we just want to use our own stuff in this one for the fun of it, the system is great, but having played a large number of classes, we like to invent along the way, coupled with the fact that we aren't using magic or magic items (hardly even enhancement bonuses), which are what normal dnd and it's classes are made around, it's just more fun to make classes balanced around our playstyle then it is to just re-do all the CR's of stuff which is already a bit off from the different style of play.

Oh... Almost no magic. That does paint a different picture. Makes sense that you could design more specific, custom melee classes then.
How much of what you want to do can be designed with feat selections from the Fighter?
The last class mentioned using illusions, how would those work in your low magic campaign?

 

[Naoki00_]

Oh... Almost no magic. That does paint a different picture. Makes sense that you could design more specific, custom melee classes then.
How much of what you want to do can be designed with feat selections from the Fighter?
The last class mentioned using illusions, how would those work in your low magic campaign?

I thought I mentioned the low-magic in the OP lol, but really none of what we desire is typically a feat. Like the Revolutionary class I made for example, it does get a feat here and there, but almost all of it is self designed to do what it does, we want our classes to carry the weight of abilities, with feats just allowing us to do a bit more stuff like cleave and all that. for example even with core classes a druid doesn't need much in the way of feats to be anything good, because it's features carry it.

As for the Illusions, the DM mentioned and suggested it, since some of the vampires will have very minor magic potential but nothing worthy of a caster, just possible "image" effects that would mislead a target. He did say it wasn't a "needed" thing, but that if I could design it well enough to try for it.

 

[Rampant]

Ok they still have charming gaze then?

Ok for number one take the current benefits of the vampire template, minus the undead bit, and start stretching that out into a progression, that should represent the become what you hunt bit, but still draw a useful difference between the hunters and the true vamps. Maybe make it so that they can keep going on vamp blood as long as they eat normally, but if they start getting hungry the blood of the living calls to them? Hmmm should it be 3/4 or full bab, that determines how many extras we can give the,.

I still don't see how 2 merits a class, just have a fighter take a few cross class skills, and deck himself out in shiny stuff like you said. You didn't describe anything special or focused enough to work with. I mean three at least had a focus.

As for three since you've got the basics at least, we're definitely looking at a full BaB class, possibly a d12er. You'll want mobility, toughness, improved overrun and or bull-rush as requirements. I'd suggest either giving them pounce or a brutal bonus on charge attack and damage to start with.

For number four start with giving them 2 claws that have the same damage and effect of a normal vamp's slam. You're gonna want pounce, speed boosts, perf BaB, plus good reflex and fort saves. How are you handling Undead with class HD? some games auto-convert all HD to d12s, some use the regular class HD and use charisma to replace con, some use regular class HD and then make take feats to use CHa for HP and stuff.

 

[Naoki00_]

Ok they still have charming gaze then?

Ok for number one take the current benefits of the vampire template, minus the undead bit, and start stretching that out into a progression, that should represent the become what you hunt bit, but still draw a useful difference between the hunters and the true vamps. Maybe make it so that they can keep going on vamp blood as long as they eat normally, but if they start getting hungry the blood of the living calls to them? Hmmm should it be 3/4 or full bab, that determines how many extras we can give the,.

I was looking at the monster classes recently actually. that might work well, though originally I was thinking of their methods in a "drink the blood- gets boosts for so many rounds" like a potion effect, or even involving alchemy of some kind..though the progression idea does sound like it might work well too.

I still don't see how 2 merits a class, just have a fighter take a few cross class skills, and deck himself out in shiny stuff like you said. You didn't describe anything special or focused enough to work with. I mean three at least had a focus.

Well I thought I'd had it described enough but I'll try to get it better then, the Idea isn't just "guy thats good at hitting things with holy objects" I don't if anyones seen the movie 'Priest' that'll read this, but I got some inspiration from that. A war-priest would have different set of skills then a fighter, actually would have much more in common to a ranger- good at fighting things, better at fighting a select few others. we've used several Favored enemy idea's already though, and a thought I had just today was giving them different 'prayers' that could be in the book they carry, each could give varying levels of moral effects to help them or the party, maybe even have access to alchemical skills and making things like sun-bombs ala Van-hellsing

As for three since you've got the basics at least, we're definitely looking at a full BaB class, possibly a d12er. You'll want mobility, toughness, improved overrun and or bull-rush as requirements. I'd suggest either giving them pounce or a brutal bonus on charge attack and damage to start with.

Those prereqs actually are close to what I thought about, though maybe not toughness (no one would probably take the feat). Something I was toying with was giving a trait that let them charge a distance as if they weren't hindered by armor, and eventually unhinder them all the time. Maybe add a Skirmish like effect? (Skirmish is similar to sneak attack damage in feel, but you just need to move at least 10ft and hit with a ranged weapon...maybe say they have to move 20ft and then when they attack they add so many extra D6?)

For number four start with giving them 2 claws that have the same damage and effect of a normal vamp's slam. You're gonna want pounce, speed boosts, perf BaB, plus good reflex and fort saves. How are you handling Undead with class HD? some games auto-convert all HD to d12s, some use the regular class HD and use charisma to replace con, some use regular class HD and then make take feats to use CHa for HP and stuff.

Actually now that you mention pounce that sounds perfect! I hadn't considered the pounce attack because normally we stay away from it, but with these guys it makes sense. as for Undead hit die, we don't convert all to D10s, but they always get at least a D8 for any class, they also have the Unholy Toughness ability (they gain extra hit points equal to their CHA mod times their number of hit die, for example a vamp with a 5 CHA mod and 5 HD would get 25 extra health, so forth and so on)

 

[Rampant]

why d8s?

 

[Naoki00_]

why d8s?

We all felt that upgrading all HD to D12s was a bit too much with everything else they got in the way of stats, so we voted and it came to-

normal HD of a D4 or D6, becomes D8

Normal HD of D8, D10, or D12, unchanged.