HELP! DM/Player Issues

[Dracolich]

Double post

 

[Dieter]

Allow me to elaborate even further. The point of any game IMO (whether it's checker, poker or D&D) is adversarial, but not to the point of being enemies. You can still have plenty of fun and be adversarial. It's been my experience (perhaps I'm the exception, not the rule), but "friendly" competition is very good. There's nothing more thrilling than a battle of wits, overcoming your "enemy" by your cunning and strategy...which, I believe is the impetus of all games.

If you don't have at least one "you bastard!" in the game, it hasn't been a good day. Are you really meaning to offend the player/DM, heck no...do you wish he/she didn't roll that natural 20, heck yeah!

 

[Eraslin]

Slightly off the topic...

So, let me get this straight. You guys have a house rule which states that if a player suggests a tactic to the DM, then he can't use it? Were I in your position I'd be thinking up everything that the enemies could possibly be doing to the characters, which is hurtful, and suggesting them all to the DM. If he can't use your suggestions....

-Eraslin

 

[Agamon]

D&D shouldn't be adversarial, as in DM vs players. The DM sets up challenges. Defeating the challenges are where the advercity comes from. Advercity between players breeds mistrust. One thing my players can do is count on me to run the best game I can, rather than worry about what new trick I have up my sleave.

If it was a game of DM vs players, heck I'd win as DM every time. After all, sending a great wyrm red dragon against a 1st level party doesn't break any rules. Joy, what fun.

 

[Agamon]

Re: Slightly off the topic...

So, let me get this straight. You guys have a house rule which states that if a player suggests a tactic to the DM, then he can't use it? Were I in your position I'd be thinking up everything that the enemies could possibly be doing to the characters, which is hurtful, and suggesting them all to the DM. If he can't use your suggestions....

Not if it's DM vs players. Otherwise you'll make the DM mad and get grudge monsters up the wazoo...you'll be dead before you can suggest anything.

 

[Dieter]

Argh...can't anyone deal with the fact that our gaming group consists of very competitive people, who quite frankly, don't like to lose. Face it, while you can say it's just a game...no one likes to lose.

To say "well, we did our best" is like saying, "well, the princess is dead and the demon razed the city, but hey...we're still alive, let's get a taco."

Screw that, we're in it to rescue the princess and send that winged beast back to hell where it belongs, possibly getting some booty (both figuratively and literally) in the process. We're in it to win, at all costs...and dammit, we actually have fun in the process.

To quote Sean Connery from The Rock

"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and (expletive deleted) the prom queen."

I suppose this is where we just end this diatribe (there's that word again) by saying.

"You play your way, we'll play ours."

DIETER

 

[Tewligan]

I disagree. If you were playing competitive poker, where stakes are wagered (money rather than life or death)...would you tip your hand or suggest that your opponent should draw 3 cards instead of just one because the odds are more favorable? I wouldn't and I bet the vast majority of people here wouldn't either.

Oh, fiddlesticks. The difference is that the point of poker or whatever is to win - there aren't any side considerations like story or character ("Ooh, I hope my three of hearts impresses the king of clubs with his diplomacy skill!") However, in our campaign anyway, the point of a roleplaying game is to develop a story. If people go into it with a number-crunching, screw-em-if-they-don't-know-a-rule mindset, I think the story suffers. Of course, that's just me - I suppose that some folk play with a different (and therefore wrong) focus*.

* - Please note that I don't really think that people who enjoy a different style of game than I do are wrong. I was joking, but I hate smilies. To be serious, I only think those people are mentally deficient.

 

[Corinth]

I disagree. If you were playing competitive poker, where stakes are wagered (money rather than life or death)...would you tip your hand or suggest that your opponent should draw 3 cards instead of just one because the odds are more favorable? I wouldn't and I bet the vast majority of people here wouldn't either.

Word, Dieter. Wise men do not correct errors made in their favor.

 

[Corinth]

Oh, fiddlesticks. The difference is that the point of poker or whatever is to win - there aren't any side considerations like story or character ("Ooh, I hope my three of hearts impresses the king of clubs with his diplomacy skill!") However, in our campaign anyway, the point of a roleplaying game is to develop a story. If people go into it with a number-crunching, screw-em-if-they-don't-know-a-rule mindset, I think the story suffers. Of course, that's just me - I suppose that some folk play with a different (and therefore wrong) focus.

But it is proper role-playing for a player--within the rules--to do all within his character's power to maximize the character's chances for success. This is usually because the character puts his life on the line in pursuit of whatever goal is at issue. Not telling the GM that he erred in favor of the character is just good sense.

 

[Dracolich]

But it is proper role-playing for a player--within the rules--to do all within his character's power to maximize the character's chances for success. This is usually because the character puts his life on the line in pursuit of whatever goal is at issue. Not telling the GM that he erred in favor of the character is just good sense.

This is so wrong. I think you got your rules mixed with my roleplaying. First you say that it's okay to maximize your character's chances of success "within the rules." Then you turn around and say that not telling the GM that he screwed up a rule, because it's in your character's favor, is okay. Bending, Breaking, or misrepresenting the integrity of rules because it's in your favor is not roleplaying. Rules and Roleplaying are two completely seperate things in D&D.