Help for beginners

[Greenfield]

I was hanging out at my FLGS last weekend, thinking I might have a chance to play-test the Egyptian Afterlife adventure I detailed in the "Dust off.." thread. I have friends there who play, and I thought it might help me judge the scale of what I was throwing at them, but they were having a "let's make/paint terrain" day.

Instead I bumped into some casual aquaintences who expressed an interest. Sadly, it was too lat by that time, but we agreed to get together this Saturday and give it a whirl.

Well, I seriously miscalculated. They only know 4th Ed, and haven't played that above about 3rd level. Playing a 3.5 scenario at 10th/11th/12th just won't work.

So I've decided to run a beginner's adventure, 1st/2nd level for them, to introduce them to 3.5. I'm providing some characters, though of course they're free to make fresh ones for the occasion.

Right now I have a Wizard, a Ranger and a Bard.

Any advice for other beginning PC classes/races I should consider?

I'm not sure if this will go anywhere, or even happen. They might decide that they like 4e, and that this whole idea is just crazy. But I'm going to show up well prepared.

 

[kitcik]

Two thoughts
- they need a healer
- they may be new to 3E, but not to D&D --> ask them what they like?

 

[zepherusbane]

If they haven't played 3.5 it might be a good idea to only stick to the basic classes like you started out doing. IE, you mentioned wizard, ranger, and bard. Any of the other basic classes could be good for a first 3.5 adventure too: fighter, sorcerer, barbarian, druid, monk, paladin, rogue, and cleric.

You probably don't need every one of them. It might be easier yet to try to limit to just the easier ones to play.

Everyone has their own opinion of which ones are easiest, but I would say Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Sorcerer are the easiest for new players.

I would stay away from any of the more specialized character classes available in other source books for their first try.

 

[Greenfield]

Two thoughts
- they need a healer
- they may be new to 3E, but not to D&D --> ask them what they like?

This is my quandry: They're used to play a D&D where they get nifty powers all the time, and where their AC and skills all go up automatically.

So while beginner classes, with very few bells and/or whistles, makes a lot of sense, there's also a balance to be played with to avoid it looking like kindergarten.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

The first couple levels in 3.5 will probably look like kindergarten then. It takes a fair bit of planning to make sure low level characters can have enough "bells and whistles" to handle a variety of tasks.

I'm not familiar with 4.0 at all, but I'm guessing the spellcaster system isn't the same. Clerics are by no means "easy" considering they have to prepare their spells, and it's from a fairly large list even just using Core.

 

[Greenfield]

4.0 deals with "powers", some of which resemble spells, others resembling feats.

Powers come in three flavors: At will , which means as often as you like, Encounter, which means once per encounter (you need 5 minutes to recharge), and Daily, which means exactly that.

And everybody has powers, most of which are magical (no matter what rationale they try to cover them with.)

Like Pathfinder, cantrip level powers can be used at will.

The real difference is hit points and healing: Hit points start as your Con, and then increase by a fixed amount each level. And everyone can heal themselves non combat. There's a limited number of times per day, total, but healing is generally cheap and easy.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I've designed a "mini dungeon" for starting new players as low level characters. A Halfling runs an exterminator service. The Dungeon is within a large city's sewer systems. You'd be amazing what people flush.
It's usually goofy and fun, and get's new players familiar with the basics. I'd suggest running something like that.

A Wizard, Ranger and Bard is a pretty good 3 person party, IF the players know how to use what they have. I second @kitcik in saying they probably need a healer. In my Sewer Exterminator Scenario, I tailor the Halfling to be an NPC of whatever class the players might be lacking, so if you run your own NPC guide in the party, just work around that.

Ultimately my advice is keep the first session simple to get familiar with the basics. Decide from there.

 

[Greenfield]

I'm planning to have eight or ten different PCs for them to choose from, including two Clerics (one of Ares and one of Hermes), as well as a Druid. There are four or five players, so I'd like to offer a bit of variety.

Depending on how I feel, I may include a Wand of Cure Light.

But I've been running through my mind how to handle the explanations. Do I try to cover the differences, or just say, "Forget what you thought you knew, this is a completely different game."?

Relating to things they already know makes things easier, but can also lead to confusion. The "Whole new game" idea makes a clean break, but may leave them struggling to find familiar ground.

Any advice on this?

 

[Duke Arioch]

Try starting at lvl 3, 4, 5 or 6. Each of those hold some break-points (3/6 are feats, 4/5 usually give a class ability). They will have more HPs, more abilities and spells. This might help reducing the drab feel 4e players get after flashiness of, well, 4e.
If nobody wants to roll a healer type, try implementing healing surge rule from 4e. It is one of the rare few things I like about 4e, and lets them heal themselves after combat. Or grant free Healing Belt from Item Compendium to each of them.
Also, to make it more colorful and fun to them, you can make x/day abilities be encounter abilities (but not spells, ofc).

 

[Greenfield]

I'm starting them at 2nd, with Exp halfway to 3rd. So if they get there, they get to pick their own feats. I'm also maxing their hit points for those two levels.

There's a mistake I've commented on before, one we see with insecure DMS and/or badly playtested systems: They try to bribe people into liking the game by burying them in candy. Softpedaled encounters, over the top rewards.

In short, "Self Esteem" gaming.

In shorter terms, 4e.

Since experienced gamers and DMs like us are smart enough to see the trap inherent in that philosophy, we can also be smart enough not to fall into that trap. Trying to "fix" a game by powering everyone and everything up a notch is a bad idea.

So I'm looking at the actual budget for 2nd level characters and equipping them accordingly. And that budget puts an extra 750 gp item per character out of reach at that level.

A wand, a single 750 gp item that the entire party pitched in for, is far more level appropriate.

So I'm thinking of a potential PC list with a lot of variety available. It will also mean possible replacement characters if necessary. (Raise Dead isn't going to happen at their level.)

So What I'm looking at, in total, is:

1) Human Cleric of Ares (War and Strength)
2) Elven Cleric of Hermes (Healing and Travel)
3) Half-Orc Barbarian
4) Half-Elf Ranger
5) Gnome Rogue
6) Elven Rogue
7) Half-Elf Bard
8) Dwarf Fighter (Great Axe)
9) Human Wizard
10) Elven Sorcerer
11) Human Fighter (Sword and Board)
12) Human Druid

This gives them a potential of 4 characters that can cast Cure Light, and 5 who can use that wand (Cure Light is on the Ranger list).

Since the players are a mixed gender group I plan to have several of these be female, just so everyone has a comfort zone.

And, by using Greco/Roman deities that don't appear in the PHB or DMG, I don't have to worry about the players realizing that I've fudged a bit on the Domains for the two Clerics.