D&D 4E Help, I’m a Terrible (4E) DM

Let's see. The Stooges comment was in regards to Lair Assault - The Talon of Umberlee. The characters were 8th level. The sliding was caused by a controller and a leader working in tandem. What hurt about that experience was that the monsters were a joke in Lair Assault, which is supposed to be balls-to-the-wall. I was expecting that the characters would be optimized, and that optimization would be required to barely survive Lair Assault. Instead, they kicked its butt.

My normal campaign is a weekly game in Gardmore Abbey. The players waltz through the encounters, bragging about how they didn't get hit a single time. This is fine; from time to time it's cool to feel like a butt kicker. But it's also kind of worrisome to me that the encounters feel like a walk in the park - that there's no real danger. I know that butt kicking will be exciting for only so long.

As DM, after I see that my monsters are just swinging at the air, unable to hit the defender except on a Natural 20 and even then just taking off a measly 10% of his hp, I'm prone to want to pack up, forget about the whole thing, and grab a beer. Particularly when the players are high-fiving and making fun of the ineptitude of the challenge.

Oh, and I am using the "new math" exclusively. All other monster resources have been safely locked away.
Actually it is quite impossible to hit only on a 20 in 4e. Something smells wrong here. I would recommend you to check the character.

Also you should keep in mind one thing in 4e. Fight as hard as you can in 4e. Let monsters fight cleverly. Ignore marks if it seems a good idea. 4e can handle quite a beating and monsters usually are able to beat them a lot. Fokus fire with artillery taking don the controller as fast as possible. He usually is the most squishy of all.
 

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Wednesday Boy

The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
How many encounters do you have each day? In the two 4E campaigns that I played in the GMs would only have one or two encounters between extended rests. Pretty quickly everyone learned that there was usually little reason to conserve Daily powers, Action Points, and magic items. And with few encounters per day, healing surges were plentiful enough to allow the PCs to go into each encounter fully healed. When you put it all together this made those one or two encounters each day very simple to overcome.
 

Are your PCs designed properly? As in, do they use reasonable point buy? Are they going out of their way to boost AC? (My players almost all boost AC into the stratosphere, and the answer is to modify monsters that you're using. So, there's no reason a fighter-type NPC or monster using a warhammer can't target Fort rather than AC, just apply the -2 penalty to hit. A monster with a tripping attack, such as a wolf, might target Reflex rather than AC, again just apply the -2 penalty to hit. A monster with a spear might also target Reflex instead of AC, just apply the -2 penalty to hit.)

Players are consistently denying actions to my monsters, sliding them around and knocking them prone like the Three Stooges. I can’t threaten “squishy” targets at all due to marks, auras, etc., from the defenders. It’s rare that I ever do enough damage to bloody even a single PC in a fight. I up the number of monsters and even fudge die rolls to give myself a fighting chance. I had only a single PC fatality in the most recent Lair Assault – and it was everyone’s first run through.

My PCs do the control thing too (they have two leaders subspecced as controllers, and one, a barbarian, has a few powers which can push opponents). I've literally never had an NPC soldier get an attack against someone violating a mark, as they're always getting shoved away from their charge, or their charge is getting slid away from them. That's not a problem to me though. PCs going out of their way to avoid bonus attacks means the NPC soldiers are doing their job by forcing the PCs to react.

Too much control? Return the favor. Controller monsters exist for a reason. Your PC wizard (if you have one) can use Icy Rays to immobilize two opponents for one turn. A lizardman "shaman" druid can use Swamp's Grasp to grab multiple PCs until they save against that. In H2 (I know this is before the monster math, but you can adjust) there's a duergar "theurge" who can summon brimstone as a recharge or encounter ability - it does AoE fire damage and knocks the victim prone - and since being knocked considered a minor effect, it's not taking any damage penalty. Is there any reason you can't do the same? My own PCs complain that they found dazing to be a weak condition against monsters, but it's so much stronger against them (especially in a leader-heavy party; being unable to heal and attack in one round is a pain for them).

Last session that I ran, I had an eladrin wizard doing exactly that to the PCs, along with a half-giant who used a spiked chain, and a couple of crossbowmen. At one point, the party's best healer had moved more than 5 squares away from the rest of the PCs and then gotten immobilized, and most of the PCs were prone due to constant tripping. I wasn't even aware of the tactical possibility here, it just came up by accident: the cleric was too far away to use healing, which was bad because the other healer had just gotten chained into unconsciousness :)

There are numerous ways of avoiding defender blocking. The easiest is to use teleporting. Even if marked (-2 to hit, possibly drawing damage) marking attacks rarely do enough to threaten monsters. Only the psychic warrior is that good at it, and setting up the marks is difficult. In other words, eladrin rogue NPCs are deadly, especially if they're using Tactical Trick to give them constant combat advantage against everything all the time.

Artillery, the next easiest, should do high damage, and many have damage bonuses in certain situations (when they can spend a minor action to boost damage, when opponents don't have cover, etc). Even if they're being paladin marked, they can either absorb the damage, or use their additional +2 bonus to hit with ranged/area attacks to target the high AC paladin, or use AoE attacks that don't target AC to hit both the paladin and a squishy (and incidentally probably target the paladin's weakest defense, and still get the +2 bonus on top of that).

Another is to use skirmishers. Depending on the fighter build (you said "aura", so I'm thinking knight) this can be quite easy. PH1 fighters have Combat Challenge. The upside; hitting a marked enemy makes it stop moving (murder on skirmishers). The downside; the fighter has to have a chance to attack. Many skirmishers can simply shift past the fighter and attack a squishy. The fighter cannot lock down the skirmisher until it's turn (when it can finally make an attack). This does assume the fighter didn't attack the skirmisher first, but if they didn't, then who is protecting the squishy? On the other hand, you may have a knight. In that case, use two skirmishers. Just be sure to avoid the 1 square aura. Said knight can only stop the attackers if they've got Staggering Hammer, and even then, only a few times per encounter. Otherwise, at best they can slow the skirmisher.

Note that some skirmishers have abilities that give AC or defense bonuses when moving or against opportunity attacks (the knight's bonus attack is an opportunity attack, so I believe that would apply).

I’m not saying I want to be a Killer DM, but I would like that the players feel threatened and challenged and aren’t getting bored with the game.

I've found some encounters can go more easily than expected, and others can be deadlier than planned. With experience, you'll have a better idea of what the PCs find scary. Apparently it's not Lair Assault. I've never had the luck to play through that, though I hear it's pretty deadly.

Let's see. The Stooges comment was in regards to Lair Assault - The Talon of Umberlee. The characters were 8th level. The sliding was caused by a controller and a leader working in tandem.

How many monsters could they tag team simultaneously like that?

As DM, after I see that my monsters are just swinging at the air, unable to hit the defender except on a Natural 20 and even then just taking off a measly 10% of his hp, I'm prone to want to pack up, forget about the whole thing, and grab a beer. Particularly when the players are high-fiving and making fun of the ineptitude of the challenge.

As mentioned by other posters, something is fishy about this. (Also, use leader monsters and auras/fantastic terrain.)
 
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Rechan

Adventurer
(My players almost all boost AC into the stratosphere, and the answer is to modify monsters that you're using. So, there's no reason a fighter-type NPC or monster using a warhammer can't target Fort rather than AC, just apply the -2 penalty to hit. A monster with a tripping attack, such as a wolf, might target Reflex rather than AC, again just apply the -2 penalty to hit. A monster with a spear might also target Reflex instead of AC, just apply the -2 penalty to hit.)
Damn. I knew to target a PC's weak NADs, but never thought to change an attack that target powerful defense x to weaker defense y. (Be aware a fighter is going to have a beefy fort). Also, don't be afraid to shoot the fighter with some vs. Will attacks too from controllers.

Too much control? Return the favor. Controller monsters exist for a reason. Your PC wizard (if you have one) can use Icy Rays to immobilize two opponents for one turn. A lizardman "shaman" druid can use Swamp's Grasp to grab multiple PCs until they save against that. In H2 (I know this is before the monster math, but you can adjust) there's a duergar "theurge" who can summon brimstone as a recharge or encounter ability - it does AoE fire damage and knocks the victim prone - and since being knocked considered a minor effect, it's not taking any damage penalty.
Duergar stats can be found in the MM2, so no need to dig through H2. The Theurge also has a rechargable AoE power that blinds.

On the topic of controller lockdown powers, I think one of the harshest low level controllers is the MM1 Goblin Hexer. The Stinging Hex does 3d6 if a character moves before they save vs the effect. The hexer also has an at will that blinds.

One of my favorite monster powers is from the MM1's Shadar-Kai witch. Beshadowing mist does 2d6 and the target has no line of sight beyond 2 squares (save ends). Any ranged PC has to be close to the action. On the downside it's a vs. Will attack.
 
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Balesir

Adventurer
Duergar stats can be found in the MM2, so no need to dig through H2.
MM2 was before the monster math tweaks (which first appeared in MM3), so you still need to modify. The really critical modification is + Level/2 damage (on average) to all attacks (not quite accurate for all cases, but close enough if you don't have time to spare).

"Hitting PCs only on a 20" actually requires an AC/Defence of Level + 25, on average (for same level monsters). I'm not sure that's possible without grossly inappropriate magical gear at any level...
 

Retreater

Legend
All characters are designed with Character Builder with level-appropriate gear, though I'm not 100% sure of item rarity.

The PC in question had a 35 AC at 7th level - and the AC is situational, not every single round. It's like if he spends his second wind, he has a feat and equipment that boosts his AC to an ungodly total until the end of his next turn or something. That was just one irritant that stuck out - that I had to drop a Natural 20 just to hit him and that it didn't even do critical damage. (This was with an Elite "boss" monster.)

I know there are monsters that I can use that will attack the party's weaknesses if I carefully analyze those weaknesses and scour every product for those enemies. However, 4E is not supposed to be such a challenge to DM - the primary reason I switched from Pathfinder/3.x. It's the equivalent of in Pathfinder/3.x saying that I can't hit the tank fighter with anything, so I have to use shadows that can attack a touch AC and drain his Strength so he has to adjust his weight allowance and as a result can no longer wear full plate, thus dropping his AC so he can fight other level-appropriate monsters along with the rest of the party.

4E is supposed to be better balanced than this, right?

I'm running adventures that are supposed to be the cream of the crop of the latter day 4E design paradigms - Cairn of the Winter King, Gardmore Abbey - and I can't believe that I'm running into these issues.
 

Keenberg

First Post
Failing everything else, throw an arcane-artillery type into your next combat encounter. Give it a new fire-type spell that functions like a disease.

Upon contraction it does damage, upon worsening it slags a piece of armor at random, upon worsening again it slags a weapon. :devil:

Sit back and watch the players look dumbstruck as their defender's armor melts uselessly to the ground, and the striker's weapon falls apart in his hand.
 

I want to see the character sheet of a tank who's hitting AC35 at level 7. By my reckoning a knight with a heavy shield in plate armour (the expected top end) should be at AC 26.

That said, I'm almost certain you have a warden there. The toughest of the tough. Take the mark, shift out (wardens don't penalise shifting), and hit someone else while his AC is that high. Wardens have poor mark punishment and are very hard to beat down. SOP - you can see him second wind with Earthstrength.
 

The PC in question had a 35 AC at 7th level - and the AC is situational, not every single round. It's like if he spends his second wind, he has a feat and equipment that boosts his AC to an ungodly total until the end of his next turn or something. That was just one irritant that stuck out - that I had to drop a Natural 20 just to hit him and that it didn't even do critical damage. (This was with an Elite "boss" monster.)

I think we need a breakdown of that.

First, what race is the PC? If they're not a dwarf (or, I guess, a warden), said PC just spend a standard action and did no damage with it. Second, Second Wind is a 1/encounter thing, so maybe you're overreacting. Third, the boss shouldn't just target AC, that's pretty poor monster design. What was the monster? Fourth, what sort of gear does that PC have, because that's not right.

A 7th-level knight, for instance, could have AC 10 + 3 (half level) + 10 (+2 plate) +2 (heavy shield) for an AC of 25. With Second Wind, that's a 27 until the start of the fighter's next turn. He's getting a +10 bonus from somewhere in addition to the Second Wind bonus. Find and fix. You shouldn't be allowing material from any sourcebook that gives out +10 bonuses to AC! (The math in 4e is tight; a +4 bonus to anything is huge.)

(Also, isn't a natural 20 always a crit, and thus max damage?)

I know there are monsters that I can use that will attack the party's weaknesses if I carefully analyze those weaknesses and scour every product for those enemies.

That's not really necessary, and you only need one monster book (any one from MM3 or later). There's three ways around that. The first is to not just use brutes, soldiers and skirmishers, all of which usually attack AC. Controllers get a bonus to hit anything other than AC, they're all over the book, and often target multiple defenses as well. Just like parties fill their roles (usually: defender, striker, controller, and leader) monsters have their own roles (soldier, controller, brute, skirmisher, lurker, and I might be missing one, plus the leader subtype). Your PCs would be having trouble if they were all fighters, ranger archers, or all clerics, or what have you - for instance, PC fighters would have a hard time targeting the high AC scores of soldiers.

The second is modifying monsters to suit your PCs (on the grounds that you fix imbalance by presenting a balanced game), eg changing defense type. I can turn an NPC warlock into a crossbowman on the fly and the players have no idea I'm doing this (all I needed was to change the flavor text, and make things target AC).

Third, making monsters is so easy you can use an index card for the creation notes - this is because the monster math is far more transparent than in 3rd Edition or Pathfinder.

4E is supposed to be better balanced than this, right?

Even a perfectly balanced game system isn't immune to DM inexperience, when you consider that no two parties are identical, so no monsters can be perfectly balanced for every party. You're not used to the system so you're running into issues. Your players seem to be cheating, reporting math "errors" ("What's your AC?" "37? Really?") or are at least finding the most broken things they can apply to the Character Builder. You aren't taking the advice presented in this thread well either, or answering questions properly.

For instance, that 7th-level fighter example, we still have no idea how they got their AC that high, or why someone would attack that specific character against that specific defense at that specific time.

I'll provide an example between 2e and 3e where someone "proved" the CR system wasn't balanced. This was on the cusp of 3.5, it had just come out and the ogre was bumped to CR 3, but the poster refused to acknowledge that or any errata. Whatever. He had a party of 2nd-level PCs: a ranger, a wizard, a druid and a rogue. (Note that at least one of those PC - ranger - is not top-tier. The CR system couldn't deal with class design problems.) The players were very experienced but trained to 2nd edition. When seeing the ogre, the wizard cast the mighty spell... Magic Missile. They created a bolt of magic about the size of their fist and hit a hulking 9 foot tall monster with it. Never mind the numbers, it should have been obvious to something with no knowledge of the rules that the attack would do nothing but irritate the ogre. It's not surprising the party got squashed. The problem wasn't the CR system, the problem was not adjusting to the new rules.
 
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Rechan

Adventurer
The fighter MAY have a feat or item that lets him have a +x to y defense for the first round/until he gets hit/whatever. But I agree, there is no reason he should have a +10 to AC. Please show us his sheet.
MM2 was before the monster math tweaks (which first appeared in MM3), so you still need to modify. The really critical modification is + Level/2 damage (on average) to all attacks (not quite accurate for all cases, but close enough if you don't have time to spare).
Sure, I was just saying if he wanted to see the powers themselves, he didn't have to dig out an adventure (with the wrong math), he could just look in the MM2/compendium (with the bad math). :)
 
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