Help - I'm no good at playing rogues!

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Ok, it isn't so bad. I can flank and Tumble and sneak attack with the best of them.

I just wonder why I took the Improved Initiative feat. I never surprise anyone, anyway.

If I scout on my own, and surprise someone, I'd better use a ranged ewapon and run away.

If I travel as part of a group, invariably the fighter in full plate will alert the enemy to our position.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Yellow Sign]

On the first round of a combat, a creature is considered to be flat footed until they go in the turn. So you can sneak attack somone in the first round of combat if you go before them. Thats why you have the Improved Initiative feat. I hope that helped.

 

[Apok]

I just wonder why I took the Improved Initiative feat. I never surprise anyone, anyway.

Improved Initiative isn't as valuable in a suprise round as it is in the first round of normal combat. You win initiative, everyone who goes after you is flat-footed and thus denied their dex. This is where your sneak attack comes into play.

If I scout on my own, and surprise someone, I'd better use a ranged ewapon and run away.

A good policy, but an even better one would be to somehow signal your comerades that there is an enemy up ahead, sneak attack him w/ the suprise round and then run away, leading him to your pary who (hopefully) has a nice little ambush set up for the unlucky bastiche.

If I travel as part of a group, invariably the fighter in full plate will alert the enemy to our position.

That's why scouting ahead of the party is a good tactic as long as your Hide/Move Silently skills are good. If you aren't going to do this, then suprise isn't going to be much of a factor in your games. That's when the high initiative really helps.

Am I missing something here?

No, I don't think you are. The Rogue's job is to be the party's Sneaky B@stard (TM). This involves alot of stealth, creativity, and underhanded tactics. Let's face it, your Rogue isn't going to be the combat powerhouse. With only d6 HP's per level you'd get eaten alive in a stand up fight. Be dirty and underhanded, grab Spring Attack, and use tactics that put you at the most advantageous position you can think of. Tactical thinking is just as important for Rogues as it is for Fighters in 3e, never forget that.

By the way... what was the point of this thread again?

 

[Zarthon]

Have a look at Song & Silence from WotC it has some nice info on playing a rogues.

 

[Thanee]

You sneak up to someone within 30' unnoticed.

Surprise Round: Sneak Attack him.

1st Round: Win Initiative (with Improved Initiative) and then either Sneak Attack again or get closer to the rest of the party quickly.

Improved Initiative basically gives you an extra action (while others are flat-footed) once per combat, everytime you win initiative because of the +4 bonus.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kershek]

You sneak up to someone within 30' unnoticed.

Surprise Round: Sneak Attack him.

1st Round: Win Initiative (with Improved Initiative) and then either Sneak Attack again or get closer to the rest of the party quickly.

Even better: sneak attack the second time and still move away at your speed (probably 30 feet). If you were 30 feet away when you did your sneak attack, you got two of them in and you're 60 feet away from the enemy by the time it's their turn. Most likely, they'd have to charge to get to you, which is even better if your friends are close enough behind.

 

[Shallown]

Sometimes it is worth picking up a level or two of fighter then while sneaking ahead and scouting ambush the enemy and fight while letting the party catch up. The levels of fighter give you some fighting ability and enough "umphh" to survive while the rest of the party reaches you.

This works well sometimes and not so well.

I played a rogue/fighter who managed to make it work mostly. With a spiked chain I could control the combat fairly well. I had at times wiped out gurads before the party could arrive to help me then again I have been trapped in a room with 12 gnolls and two trolls with fighter levels. If not for expertise and fighting defensively I would have died. I stil ended up having to kill the gnolls as they blocked the door shut my Companions couldn't make it through (failed strength check after strength check.) and all they could hear was my decidedly male character screaming like a woman.

It all falls back to do you trust the party to catch up and cover your behind becuase often after holding the surprise attack means you need to retreat as soon as they show up and let them bat cleanup.

later

 

[Darklone]

If you sneak ahead, and sneak attack from 30ft, then move 30ft back and be sure to stand next to the fighter with the set longspear to greet the guys who charge after you

 

[officeronin]

Any other feats?

If you have Quicker than the Eye, you can sneak attack (because you have won initiative), and then use quicker than the eye to hide.

 

[the Jester]

Don't forget expert tactician, too- in fact, there's a whole thread on the subject going right now.