Help in reducing the wargaming aspect of DnD

[squat45]

Ok all, I've been a lurker for a couple of years at least (I did post a few times back when it was Eric Noah's site...), but here is my quandry:

We have a real good group or players in our game and we play about once a month (we all have kids, so this makes it really tough). Anyways, one of our number is a HUGE wargamer, he plays a ton of Mechwarrior and Axis and Allies, and whatever other war-type game he can get his hands on. He brings this to the gaming table all the time and role-playing just drops... it becomes the ever-dreaded roll-playing. We do have some good role-players in the group, but he really turns the game. Unfortunately, he is the de-facto party leader because he is a Paladin with like a 21 Charisma (19 natural, +2 cloak of Charisma)...

Also, this guy's wife plays in the group and he really micromanages her to the extreme ... to the point of he almost plays her character. I'm going to chat with him this week, so it's probably not a big deal as we are all friends.

Any ideas... we're not a bunch of newbies at all, most of us have played for 15 years or more (myself and another guy for over 20)... Since we don't play a lot, any help from some of you who play all the time would be helpful... how do we remove the extreme wargame element and bring back the role-playing element of the game?

Thanks in advance

 

[Crothian]

The best way to remove the war gaming is not use minis and battle mats.

 

[Zoatebix]

Are you looking for more flavorful combats? Would it make sense (at least as far as your DMing style goes) for Style (meaning cool, descriptive actions in combat) to sometimes win out over Substance (meaning strict tactical play)?

If you're not adverse to a 7 dollar pdf solution (or waiting 'til the print version comes out), Mike Mearls' Book of Iron Might[/] from Malhavoc Press has a significant amount of material dedicated making combat more of a role-playing experience while staying within the spirit, if not the letter, of the core d20 rules. The book provides many new mechanics for expanding the range of actions that can be taken in combat, and it discusses the implementation and repurcussions of these mechanics in great detail, all while keeping in mind the wide variety of playing styles out there.

Other than that - I'd just say don't be afraid to let the players or the npcs break out of the battle-grid mindset every once in a while - let them try risky, fancy, descriptive, and fun things, and reward their characters for success. It seems like you're already well on your way to reigning in the one problem player, which would be my only other suggestion.
-George

PS - Or... yeah, you know. What Crothian said.

 

[trilobite]

I would try to put the charismatic paladin into situations that he had to role-play. The Duke has invited the party to a costume ball and the paladin is obligated to go so he can broker a deal for funds for a new temple. Stuff like that. Have a night with no combat at all. Don't even break out the battle mat. Separate the wife's character from the husband's character. Actually have them sit apart at the gaming table. See if that works.

 

[der_kluge]

I agree with Trilobite. Put him in conflicting situations - the party just found the vile necromancer they'd been hunting, and they find out she's 8 months pregnant. Kill her, and her (sinless?) unborn child, or spare her?

Reduce the combat is another good tactic.

 

[squat45]

Tried some of those ideas... the person is just not much of a role-player... he really stutters and stammers until some of the more capable players help him out... it's kindof funny, he's getting some really good help from a lot of different people, which is kindof how our group has evolved.

Personally, I like the battlemap. I always felt arbitrary when someone asked, "Can I move and attack?" I've been thinking of trying the following:

1) Remove many of the attacks of opportunity. I've seen where the players get so caught up in... if I move here I don't get attacked, but if I move this way I do, and they spend minutes counting out different possibilities... like playing axis and allies over and over again. Some things would still allow AoO...

2) Budget EXTREMELY limited, 2 kids and the only breadwinner does not allow for much game $$$. The suggestion though is cheap, so maybe I'll try some of it out.

3) My style as a DM does need some polishing. I'm a puzzle-maker and director of sorts, not much of a storyteller myself. That's something I'm going to have to work on.

Overall, I guess that a little more work and maybe a conversation or two with a couple people will help put us on the right direction. We are mostly neighbors, so the opportunity to talk gaming comes up frequently.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Try this.
Player's get access to the PHB only.
A lot of power gamers use 3-5 books to tweak and min/max their PC.
Remove that ability.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Try this.
Player's get access to the PHB only.
A lot of power gamers use 3-5 books to tweak and min/max their PC.
Remove that ability.

I would say that would have no effect at ALL on the wargaming aspect. Really, the best way to reduce that is to not use a battlemat. Keep it more abstract. Its still possible to use AoO, etc etc without a map(my old group and I had no problem with that) if things are described well.

 

[deltadave]

First you have define what it is you don't like about the way this player plays.

I would recommend as a first step - force everyone into character by enforcing a 'if the player says it, the character says it' rule.

Since it sounds like you enjoy the table top aspects of play (battlemats and mini's) it must be the roleplay aspects of play. Ignore the players delivery and just consider the idea being presented, then institute situational modifiers, so that if the player gives an unreasonable reply, then give a -2 or -4 on the CHA check. If the player relies on other players to do his talking for him, make the character with the lowest CHA make the roll. The most radical approach would be to do away with rolls and just roleplay out any encounters... take into account the characters skill ranks vs the players presentation and determine reactions from there using your DM intuition.

another way of forcing in game role play is to give time limits for action. In other words, once you turn to a player and ask for their action, if they don't start acting in about 5-10 seconds, then their character stands there staring off into space that turn and go to the next one.

also, enforce a strict arrow of time... once a player has stated their action, don't let them go back and revise it base on another players input or actions.

 

[Oryan77]

You could do the exact same thing to them. If they spend an annoying amount of time focusing on which square to move in to avoid AoO, and other detailed tactics; then tell them you'll do the same thing with every NPC in the encounter. They won't want to sit and watch you concentrate on all 15 orcs and saying, "If I move orc #5 here, you'll get an AoO on him, but wait, if I move him here and then move orc #7 there, I'll get a flank on you. OHHH, no wait, I could move orc #5 beside orc #8 and get 2 orcs flanking you because orc #8 is already flanking you with orc #2. Yeah I'm going with that...now let's see, which other orcs havn't gone yet?"

As DM's we tend to decide what our NPC's will do very quickly because we have so many NPC's to direct; we want to finish our action and get to the next round. I might give more attention to the BBEGs, but generally I move my NPC's around pretty fast without worrying about AoOs (if I move and a player says, "I get an AoO"...then I assume the NPC wasn't focusing on strategy at the moment & may get hit by the AoO). Just let them know that each time they wargame like that, you'll do the same with the NPCs...it's only fair that NPC's get the same attention to tactical details as the PC's get. The players might start encouraging the wargamer to hurry up and tell him to stop concentrating so much on details.

You could do it a few times in a humorous manner just to get your point across. Make a joke out of it so the wargamer won't feel bad for doing it. Just let him know you get bored waiting on him just as much as players get bored waiting on you.