D&D 5E (2014) Help me balance encounters for Magic Items and Feats

[Rabulias]

I'll bet you a six pack of beer this is where your problem lies.

The bet contains a clue.

 

[Flamestrike]

The bet contains a clue.

You just KNOW the OP doesn't average more than 3 encounters between long rests.

I'd go so far as to say he also likely just gives them a long rest after every session, and has [long rest] and [end of session] conflated.

It's the cause of the problem in thread like this literally every single time.

 

[Flamestrike]

The argument invariably goes like this:

DM: 5E is to easy, the PCs are steamrolling my encounters!
Everyone else: How many encounters are they getting between long rests?
DM: Huh? Why does that matter?
EE: Well DnD is a resource management game. Mechanically speaking. Long rest resources are expected to last around 6 encounters before being expended. If your group are dealing with less than around 6 encounters per long rest (with those encounters XP totals adding up to roughly the figures given in the DMG under the 'XP per adventuring day' table), then of course they're going to steam-roll your encounters. The can nova the crap out of them, dumping all their potent resources and button mashing.
DM: But I cant fit 6 encounters in the time I have during a session, the best I can do is 1-3 per session.
EE: Long rest recharges of resources have nothing to do with 'session length'. They're an arbitrary amount of time in game between long rests.
DM: But my stories pacing doesn't support that kind of encounter/ rest ratio. Six encounters in a single day is bonkers!
EE: The DMG literally gives you several options to alter those encounter/ rest ratio, including the 'gritty realism' variant that spaces those 6 encounters out over several weeks of game time, with a long rest in that variant taking entire week of downtime to happen.
DM: But my players just keep resting whenever they want.
EE: You're the DM. Why are you (and their adversaries and the story) letting them? Why is there no time pressure or environmental reasons stopping them? Random encounters and doom clocks.
DM: Whats a doom clock?
EE: A time limit on the quest at hand. You know: stop the ritual by X or else bad thing Y happens.
DM: That doesnt fit my narrative of my game.
EE: OK then, alternatively tie resource replenishment to session length.
DM: My players would never buy into that.
EE: They already have been; you've been averaging 1-3 encounters per session in your games, and giving them a long rest every session at the end. Instead of a long rest, just give them a short rest at the end of every session with the third such short rest, instead being a long rest.
DM: NO! (Rage quits).

Every. Single. Time.

 

[BookTenTiger]

You just KNOW the OP doesn't average more than 3 encounters between long rests.

I'd go so far as to say he also likely just gives them a long rest after every session, and has [long rest] and [end of session] conflated.

It's the cause of the problem in thread like this literally every single time.

Well I'm about to break your heart.

I tend to plan out my adventures with 6 - 8 encounters per long rest. The characters definitely have to earn their long rests - I have random encounters and environmental effects that they must overcome.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Here's the party composition:

Goliath Barbarian Path of the Ancients
Gnome Artificer Alchemist
Aasimar Cleric of Death
Kenku Rogue (I'm blanking on subclass)
Tiefling Warlock of the Divine

What's interesting about this composition is that there is a LOT of healing going around. So the characters are usually going into each combat with full hit points.

The Barbarian had the Sentinel Feat, which locks down Big Melee guys.

And for some reason the Cleric always rolls max on Inflict Wounds. That's obviously something I can't control for.

This group really loves to try and find noncombat solutions to encounters, so out of my six to eight they will often solve two or three with roleplay!

Honestly the players are having a fun time. I just want to make sure that when I plan out a tough encounter, it's actually tough.

 

[Flamestrike]

Well I'm about to break your heart.

I tend to plan out my adventures with 6 - 8 encounters per long rest. The characters definitely have to earn their long rests - I have random encounters and environmental effects that they must overcome.

Can you give me an example of your most recent adventuring days worth of encounters?

 

[BookTenTiger]

I think my big takeaway from this thread is that I can look more quantitatively at the amount of damage and hit points of my enemies and use that to calculate how much of a threat the enemy will be. For example, if I want a big melee enemy to last three rounds, I should give it enough HP to withstand three barbarian attacks (extra attack plus a Dancing Sword) for three rounds.

I can then support that with mobile or ranged enemies, but I should make sure their damage output is enough of a real threat to draw fire away from the barbarian's target.

 

[Flamestrike]

I think my big takeaway from this thread is that I can look more quantitatively at the amount of damage and hit points of my enemies and use that to calculate how much of a threat the enemy will be. For example, if I want a big melee enemy to last three rounds, I should give it enough HP to withstand three barbarian attacks (extra attack plus a Dancing Sword) for three rounds.

Dancing sword and Rage both use a Bonus action to activate remember.

So two attacks round one, and three on 2 and 3.

 

[tetrasodium]

Here's the party composition:

Goliath Barbarian Path of the Ancients
Gnome Artificer Alchemist
Aasimar Cleric of Death
Kenku Rogue (I'm blanking on subclass)
Tiefling Warlock of the Divine

What's interesting about this composition is that there is a LOT of healing going around. So the characters are usually going into each combat with full hit points.

The Barbarian had the Sentinel Feat, which locks down Big Melee guys.

And for some reason the Cleric always rolls max on Inflict Wounds. That's obviously something I can't control for.

This group really loves to try and find noncombat solutions to encounters, so out of my six to eight they will often solve two or three with roleplay!

Honestly the players are having a fun time. I just want to make sure that when I plan out a tough encounter, it's actually tough.

I've had a group like that before that went to about 13th or 14th level, about the only way it can get worse is if the warlock takes a couple levels in sorcerer for extra spell slots. Pretty much anything shy of death by massive damage is certain to get someone casting healing word/warlok's divine light. Shy of getting rid of death saves & making it so 0 or -10 is instant death rather than just dropping them till someone can toss their weakest (preferably ranged) heal using the bonus action they probably were not going to use on the very next round it's not going to matter what you do.

The other thing you can do is always have a bunch of ranged attackers that shoot+interrupt anyone casting a heal spell/using divine light or regularly use antimagic fields & such. Throwing armies to the party that turn combat into a slog can help. None of those are good solutions & it becomes extremely obvious triggering an arms race escalation of player vrs GM over time with frustrated players winding up feeling like they are forced into it. The rogue & barbarian have such high damage compared to the cleric & artificer that it generally won't matter what the rogue/cleric do as long as they immediately stand the others up. The warlock is not too far behind the rogue & bararian so sifts from doesn't matter+ heal fallen allies with an unused BA.


If you look at the math, the damage disparity is so bad that you can literally just give cleric & artificer specific illusionist's bracers from ggtr, just make sure that the warlock can't use them with eldritch blast. From there scale things with something more meaningful than resistant to nonmagical b/p/s damage used by nobody & sometimes old style DR so at least casting that heal has some opportunity cost. Making healing word a level 3 or so spell will also give healing word a cost but do nothing about the warlock's divine light

You can also do things like raise ac by 4-5 on everything & cut hp by 40-60% as works best.


I was never able to find a good solution I was happy with without treading towards heartbreak territory but IMO & IME WotC set you up to fail in this situation and considers you viewing it as a problem in need of addressing about some kind of abhorrent killergm type badwrongfun not worth even admitting might be a problem at some tables.

 

[NotAYakk]

Also, instead of direct threats to the PCs, think of indirect threats.

1. Things that the PCs want to protect. NPCs, objects, whatever.

Hostages, citizens, whatever. Good old rampage. Roll dice to see how many civilians die.

2. Enemies that are buying time for something bad to happen elsewhere.

Maybe a BBEG is running away, or executing their plot. This fight is chaff, and so is the next one.

3. PCs buying time for something good to happen elsewhere (or even here, like reinforcements), up against an escalating and infinite horde of foes.

Start with 50 zombie points. Each round roll 2d6 and add to the zombie points; if you roll doubles, roll again ("explode"). Whenever you roll a 6, a wave of zombies arrive equal to 1 for every 10 zombie points (round down).

Wave size is 5 + .82 per round.
On average 0.39 waves/round.

They can't stand against it forever. The longer they last, the more refugees escape.

4. Crazy amounts of enemies the PCs can engage whenever they want, but the foes are on the move towards targets.

A tarrasque, a pit fiend with dozens of devils, 1000s of bezerkers, a naval invasion with 100+ ships, a dracolich with a kobold cult, and a dozen mind flayers are all going to attack a city in various ways. Their attacks arrive in 5-10 days. What do you do?

In every case, you don't need a "fair" fight capable of dropping a PC every round for there to be risk and danger. This is T3, they can pick their fights. Odds are they can beat a number of the above, the question becomes how efficiently can they do it?