Help Me Build a BBEG

[Infiniti2000]

I'm surprised you didn't pose this question on the other board we frequent...

This forum gets far more traffic for character tweaking.

 

[Bryan898]

By the RAW a spellcasting class is nonassociated as long as the monster doesn't already possess spellcasting of that type (arcane/ divine), however I understand the argument of it being a bit powerful.

I exploit the rules like that often when it comes to high level play, but it takes a powerful opponent to stand up to multiple PCs alone, and that's what I was shooting for with the giant. I personally enjoy the single BBEG versus multiple PCs at most levels, and enjoy writing up opponents powerful enough to do so without using a huge CR and thus avoiding giving the PCs tons of XP. =)

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Personally, I'd pump for a drow lich cleric 20. Or bolt in some prestige class...

Between the rebuking, phylactery and SR, they're going to be one persistent BBEG? Better still, who don't love healing via mass inflict/harm type spells.

Possibly try to disguise the fact that it's a lich on the first encounter? Masquarade as another type of undead...

As for artefacts... whatever seems apt? However, the Shadowstaff could be neat? Does need an ego IMO, but what uber evil artefact doesn't?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Between the rebuking, phylactery and SR, they're going to be one persistent BBEG? Better still, who don't love healing via mass inflict/harm type spells.

Although I'm not designing this BBEG around the party, it's interesting to know that they always have a wand of death ward available and use it prior to every 'big' battle. If they were prepared for the BBEG, they would definitely all have death ward, greatly limiting mass inflict/harm spells. Expensive, yes, but extraordinarily effective. Alas.

 

[Scion]

By the RAW a spellcasting class is nonassociated as long as the monster doesn't already possess spellcasting of that type (arcane/ divine), however I understand the argument of it being a bit powerful.

If you look at one paragraph that is true.

If you look at the next one could say that it isnt

Associated Class Levels
Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1.
Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability.
Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage.
A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability.

Nonassociated Class Levels
If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated, and things get a little more complicated. Adding a nonassociated class level to a monster increases its CR by 1/2 per level until one of its nonassociated class levels equals its original Hit Dice. At that point, each additional level of the same class or a similar one is considered associated and increases the monster’s CR by 1.
Levels in NPC classes are always treated as nonassociated.

Note that it says that if they already have spellcasting then it is automatically associated. Ok then, the giant doesnt have any so it isnt automatic.

The next paragraph says that, 'if you add a class level that doesnt directly play to a creature's strength then the class level is considered nonassociated'.

In this case the cleric level can, and from what I can tell, does play to this creatures strengths.

It allows him to use heavier armor, it can grant an extra point of attack power right away, and he could pick combat related spells (shield of faith? entropic shield? Bless?).

I can definately see how it wouldnt be automatically counted as associated by looking at the caster level of it, but I think that looking at the nonassociated says that it simply cannot fall under that category.

It is fuzzy territory, but given the choice between one or the other I'd have to say that the associated is the better choice.. If there was an inbetween choice that might be more appropriate, but there is not

 

[Nail]

It is fuzzy territory, but given the choice between one or the other I'd have to say that the associated is the better choice...

As strange as it may seem, I completely agree with Scion. In the past I've run into "CR Trouble" when I played fast-and-loose with the "non-associated" class levels when making classed monsters; that is, the actual play-tested CR turned out to be much higher than the calculated CR.

Put more weight on the phrase "If you add a class level that doesn’t directly play to a creature’s strength the class level is considered nonassociated,..." and you should be fine.

Not that I'm worried about Infiniti2000, mind you. I'm sure he'll be fine.

 

[Bryan898]

In this case the cleric level can, and from what I can tell, does play to this creatures strengths.

It allows him to use heavier armor, it can grant an extra point of attack power right away, and he could pick combat related spells (shield of faith? entropic shield? Bless?).

Yes, but suddenly the cleric becomes associated levels for any creature as you could make that arguement with any creature. Unless of course you could name one that doesn't benefit from cleric levels.

I totally agree with you on the cleric levels should probably be associated, but IME at higher levels/ epic play the CR system starts to break down. IMO I'd still place this creature as an appropiate challenge for a party of level 20-22's (with about a 24 CR), regardless of what the rules would have him at.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I'm really intrigued by the half-fiend titan, but that doesn't give me CL17+.

Oops sorry. In 3e they could cast spells as level 20 wizards or clerics. I guess in 3.5 they forgot how :\

 

[Infiniti2000]

How about a ulitharid who was such an aberrated aberration that he could concentrate long enough to learn psionics (at least not well). He has greatly lessened psionics and is CE and was (perhaps) 'tossed' out sometime after the ceremorphosis. Hmm....maybe he's CE due to his half-red dragon heritage.

 

[Eloi]

I'd go with a 20 CE Cleric who invested 3 levels into feats, at the 6 Feats = 1 level rate, then invested a level's worth of exp (23,000 exp at virtual level 24) into itemcrafting. Plan around your artifacts.

This is the kind of BBEG that just needs that one truly horrific deed to bring about his/her ascension/descent into Epic levels of Badness. One innocent sacrifice, pure and sweet.

And this fella has been waiting for the stars to align.

By the way, has it been a while since the players' characters contacted their families? Nothing like seeing little Julie ("My sister! You fiend!") bound in chains on an altar-top to remind folks to write home once in a while.