Help me build a versatile Sorcerer

[Thanee]

Your argument doesn't work, Camarath. It's not the same thing, which you are implying here.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Camarath]

Your argument doesn't work, Camarath. It's not the same thing, which you are implying here.

It is exactly the samething, Thanee. Nowhere in the 3.0 entry does it limit the spells on the Sorcerer's Spell List to those Sorcerer/Wizard spells that appear in the PHB it does however give a page reference for the Sorcerer's spell list which is page 168. So if that reference limits which Sorcerer/Wizard spells are on the Sorcerer's Spell List it only makes sense for it to limit the list to only those spells which actually appear on referenced page.

 

[Thanee]

The text there says...

"These spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer and wizard spell list (page 168), ..."

A page reference.

"... or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study."

Furthermore it says...

"For example, a sorcerer with a scroll or spellbook detailing an unusual sorcerer/wizard spell ..."

Now note, how "unusual sorcerer/wizard spell" gets defined...

"... (one not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list in this book) could select that spell as one of his new spells ..."

The addition "in this book" would not be necessary, if it was just meant to refer to the complete sorcerer/wizard spell list. However, it is there, and IMHO this adds an additional restriction on the way how sorcerers can learn their spells. You don't have to agree with this more restrictive understanding, of course.

Now, I won't argue, that this is open to interpretation, and reading it in the way Pax implies, that only spells that someone created and that are not known to more than a select few people are "unusual", surely does make sense as well, but that's not what is written there, it's just a way to interprete things in a more lenient fashion (i.e. reading "in this book" as "in this and any other book").

Now to your comparison, you compare a page reference with a definition of a term. That's two very different things.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Camarath]

"... (one not on the sorcerer/wizard spell list in this book) could select that spell as one of his new spells ..."

My 3.0 PHB does not say "in this book". It only says "(one not on the sorcerer spell list)".

 

[Thanee]

1st printing?

Just looked it up in my 1st printing PHB, looks like they have added that part later, so that puts even more emphasis on it, or not?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Zhure]

The FAQ contained this tidbit:

The Player’s Handbook mentions that sorcerers can obtain spells
from other sources, which implies that they can choose spells from
beyond the sorcerer/wizard spell list. Does this mean sorcerers can
access divine magic as well?
No. The text in question (on page 50 of the first-printing Player’s
Handbook) is an error left over from an earlier draft of the rules. The
error has since been corrected. Sorcerers are limited to spells on
sorcerer/wizard list. Note that other books add spells to the sorcerer/
wizard list and sorcerers certainly can use those.

To translate: New material, and third-party material, whose spells are marked Sorcerer/Wizard means a Sorcerer can learn them up to his chart limit of spells per level.

As an aside, I think it's a rip-off there are a few wizard-only spells but no sorcerer-only spells. But that's just my opinion.
Greg

 

[Pax]

Zhure: As for there beign a couple Wiz-only spells ... that inequity is slightly redressed by the presence of a handful of spells in the Draconomicon which are slightly advantaged for sorcerors who cast them (sorcerors cast them at +1 caster level).

 

[Thanee]

Not to mention, that the wizard-only spells are competely pointless to sorcerers, because they are spells dealing with prepared slots.

Note, the above quote clarifies that part with the bard or cleric spells. It's not an errata, because that is also said in the magic section (that you can only learn from your own spell list). It doesn't address the other issue, tho. So that is where everyone has to use their own interepretation still.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

(sorcerors cast them at +1 caster level).

Does that mean, that (all !!) sorcerers really are meant to be descendants of dragons?
Is that addressed in the Draconomicon?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

Thanks to all for the spells suggestions so far!

First of all I want to say a couple of things:

1) all the FR books are certainly available, but probably not the Draconomicon and definitely not other settings books like Dragonlance; I still prefer to have mostly PHB spells, since I haven't had the chance to try all those out, but a couple from FRCS or MoF are certainly fine

2) our gaming group trend is to allow any magic item (at least from the DMG) when the campaign starts, but from that point forward it's very hard to find a specific magic item for sale, unless of course a fellow comrade can craft it; this may be very important when considering which items to buy to grant an ability in place of a known spell

Now some more considerations about my spell selection.

- Thanee you are very convincing about Polymorph , if it replicates flight then I can drop Fly at least; I can also think to drop Disguise Self but I am not sure because the duration may be a winner here, especially if extended

- I may consider to actually drop one of the damaging spells! What if I keep Magic Missile and Lightning Bolt and drop the Scorching Ray? Or alternatively, drop LB and wait for Firebrand? Is there really a need for more than a couple damaging spells at this point, beside the fact of having more damage types at my disposal? Also, I could buy a wand or two with spells of a different damage type!

- I am still dubious about the invisibility spells; I want to use them mostly for sneaking or escaping, but the Invisibility Sphere seems difficult to be used coordinately by all the characters. Greater Inv is of course also great in combat, but the short duration makes it more hazardous to be used for the 2 previous uses...

- thanks a lot to the guy who suggested Hairy Spider as familiar! Incidentally, I was kind of neutral on the familiars because there is none I would prefer more than the others at this level (except the improved ones, but I won't take the feats). Darkvision is -just- what I need, and the spider will save me a precious spell. Also, perhaps drows won't easily try to kill their goddess' favored creature

- the undead spells don't appeal me much... we probably have a cleric and they will be his own job

I will post a revised list soon.