Help me build a versatile Sorcerer

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Nice looking character there!

I think Arcane preparation can be an interesting feat choice for a sorceror... if it's allowed. If you've got metamagiced spells you know you're going to use then it's good. Possibly allows later use of quicken spell as well - which is amazing! However, I'd check that with the DM as it's something that I think is very open to interpretation/vicious arguing.

If you get the 'space' later, I find Wall of Stone useful. It's a stone wall. It's hard to destroy. You can shape it for impromptu buildings/bridges/etc - all round a winner for me. It's fun for blocking passages (when you're fleeing!).

Personally I'd drop the invisibility in favor of scorching ray... keep the lightning bolt as well. But I think they both have their uses and I like blowing stuff up.

As a first level spell, I think Grease could be rather useful. The slipping aspect can be fun, and the +10 circumstance stacks with the +6 competence from the Vest of Escape...

A couple of Spells for later that I really like:

Solid Fog - it's a fantastic battlefield control spell. Non magic users are basically reduced to 5' move/round with no save/SR. Great stuff!

Gust of wind - in 3.0 I wasn't a 'fan' of it as a 3rd level spell. In 3.5 as a 2nd level I think it's worth taking in a few levels. The blowing small creatures away can be suprisingly useful and the fog dispersal is nice.

Protection from evil (in scroll form) - only because one of these saved a party I was in. The 'hedging out mind control' is fantastic when it's the cleric that's mind controlled!

 

[Liquidsabre]

Spells:
0th - Acid Splash, Disrupt Undead, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Message, Read Magic, Prestidigitation + 1
1st - Magic Missile, Charm Person, Shield, Color Spray + Mage Armor or another (if using bracers of armor)
2nd - Web*, Invisibility, Glitterdust
3rd - Dispel Magic, Lightning Bolt*
4th - Polymorph

Very interesting! I must say thanks for letting all of us look over your char and comment on it (it's been fun reading about it!).

Color Spray is a great spell though mostly it will only be stunning for 1 round on most big nasties. Mage Armor can be gutted for Bracers of Armor +3/+4. Shield is always great and Magic Missle, naturally. I'd also recommend Protection from Evil as this is always a nice spell for +2 AC, not to mention hedging summoned creatures, and protects from mind-controlling effects.

I wouldn't get Web, better to just spend the cash on a Web Wand rather than using one of your known spells. If not selecting the feats Spell Pen/Greater Spell Pen I HIGHLY recommend Melf's Acid Arrow (which ignores Spell Resistance!!) for those big nasties with SR.

Again, I prefer Alter Self as the catch-all FR spell for all your fly/swim/natural armor needs, no real need to look further IMHO. If not selecting Firebrand as a 5th, get Explosive Cascade at 4th: the ULTIMATE morphable AoE fire spell! You get a certain number of 5ft squares you can pick (all connected by a fiery ball that rolls around) to hit with the spell. You can nail all your opponents and miss all of your allies. [Both spells in Magic of Faerun]

Well, hope you have fun playing the char when it's finally finished, I'm currently running CotSQ for my group, so uh, as for further explanations into spell selection, the official word is: no comment.

 

[Li Shenron]

Very interesting! I must say thanks for letting all of us look over your char and comment on it (it's been fun reading about it!).

But... it's me who has to thank you all a lot for the suggestions and discussion!

I just hope that this thread hasn't annoyed anyone for being in the rules forum. It would be nice if there was a forum for characters build only (Rogue Gallery is to post finished characters IIRC).

Color Spray is a great spell though mostly it will only be stunning for 1 round on most big nasties. Mage Armor can be gutted for Bracers of Armor +3/+4. Shield is always great and Magic Missle, naturally. I'd also recommend Protection from Evil as this is always a nice spell for +2 AC, not to mention hedging summoned creatures, and protects from mind-controlling effects.

I like Color Spray for the stunning effect on multiple creatures. I am not sure but I think that unfortunately it cannot be extended (it says "instantaneous" but also "see text", however I think the first applies).

The 3 defensive spells are all very good, and hence the diffult choice. One at least must be dropped to leave space for other spells. Mage Armor may also be dropped, but if I can manage to avoid buying the bracers, I will have 16000gp for wands .

Again, I prefer Alter Self as the catch-all FR spell for all your fly/swim/natural armor needs, no real need to look further IMHO. If not selecting Firebrand as a 5th, get Explosive Cascade at 4th: the ULTIMATE morphable AoE fire spell! You get a certain number of 5ft squares you can pick (all connected by a fiery ball that rolls around) to hit with the spell. You can nail all your opponents and miss all of your allies. [Both spells in Magic of Faerun]

I prefer Polymorph because of the much larger choice: up to 15HD and not restricted to humanoids (I think there are no flying humanoids in the MM, and there probably won't be Avariels in our campaign...).

 

[Li Shenron]

On a FR website I also found the following two feats which could be very useful:

Fortify Spell is metamagic and gives a +2 caster level to beat SR for every level the spell is increased. This could be a valid alternative to Spell Penetration. It has the metamagic cost but you can get potentially a much higher bonus, only when you need it.

Strong Soul is quite a generic 1st-level only feat, with +1 to 2 ST which become +3 vs death/drain effects, which always scare me quite a lot .

 

[Thanee]

Color Spray - I wouldn't get this, you won't find any use for this spell at your level. I had it at 1st (great spell to start out with, altho that 15' is rather limited) and dropped it at 6th. By then it's usually not worth spending the action anymore (unless you Heighten it, but even then you are better off with other stuff like Slow).

Protection from Evil - This is indeed a very useful spell.

Fortify Spell - Havn't tried it, but I don't think it really is that good. Spell Penetration always works and doesn't have a cost in requiring higher spell levels or full-round actions.

Mage Armor vs Bracers of Armor - I'd keep the spell and get a Con +4 item instead.

Web + Lightning Bolt vs Scorching Ray + Slow - Tough decision. My favorite would be the latter (web can be quite annoying for your own party as well), but both are surely good.

Bye
Thanee

 

[wolfen]

To insist that Sorcerors - and ONLY orcerors - need an example of any spell outside the PHB, is beyond stupid. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but (a) it's far earlier than I'm accustomed to being awake ... and (b) I'm absolutely flabbergasted that you would conceive of such a ... well ... stupid thing! Some things just cannot be sugar-coated.

You've been rude, you are rude, you will probably continue being rude. Why stop to excuse yourself? It's so out of character.

You should have stuck with your social ineptitude and lack of warmth. I'm afraid I'm going to have to apply a -500XP penalty for poor role playing.

 

[Liquidsabre]

You've been rude, you are rude, you will probably continue being rude. Why stop to excuse yourself? It's so out of character.

You should have stuck with your social ineptitude and lack of warmth. I'm afraid I'm going to have to apply a -500XP penalty for poor role playing.

LOL hey buddy, where we're from acting out of character isn't poor roleplaying....it's character development!

 

[Li Shenron]

In case you might want to see the final result...

Race:		Human , male
Alignment:	Chaotic Neutral
Class:		Sorcerer 8

Personal Description
Age:		40
Height:		175cm
Weight:		62kg
Details:	Long white hair, short unkempt white beard, light blue eyes, very fair skin,
		scorched fingers, warm and penetrating voice, calm mannerisms and sagacious smile,
		wears long hooded cloak of rough fabric and blueish velvet old-fashioned clothes underneath

Racial Features
Size:		medium
Base Speed:	30ft
Skills:		+1 extra
Languages:	Common
Favored class:	any
Special:	bonus feat

Base Abilities (30-point buy)
Strength	10		Intelligence	12
Dexterity	14 		Wisdom		10
Constitution	14		Charisma	16+2**=18

** level increase

LEVEL 8

Class	Sorcerer 8

Str	10	0		Int	12	+1
Dex	14	+2		Wis	10	0
Con	14	+2		Cha	18	+4

Initiative	+2
BAB		+4
Attacks (melee)	Staff +5 damage 1d6/1d6, crit 20/x2
		Dagger +4 damage 1d4, crit 19-20/x2
Attacks (ranged)	Dagger +6 damage 1d4, crit 19-20/x2, 10ft
		Light Crossbow +7 damage 1d8, crit 19-20/x2, 80ft
AC		12 (10 + 2dex), touch 12, flat-footed 10
ACP		0
ASF		0%
ST		Fort	+2 +2 = +4
		Refl	+2 +2 = +4
		Will	+6 +0 = +6
Hp		4 + 7d4 (avg 17) + 16 (Con) = 37

Weapon prof.	(all Simple Weapons)
		Unarmed Strike, Gauntlet, Spiked Gauntlet
		Dagger, Punching Dagger, Sickle
		Light and Heavy Mace, Morningstar
		Club, Quarterstaff
		Shortspear, Spear, Longspear
		Dart, Javelin, Sling
		Light and Heavy Crossbow
		
Armor prof.	none

Feats:		Silent Spell, Extend Spell, Spell Penetration
                          Alertness (when familiar is within arm's reach)

Skills:		Climb			0		acp
		Jump			0		acp
		Swim			0		acp x2

		Balance			+2		acp
		Escape Artist		+2		acp
		Hide			+2	8/2	acp		+6
		Move Silently		+2	8/2	acp		+6
		Ride			+2
		Use Rope		+2

		Concentration		+2	11			+13

		Appraise		+1
		Craft			(+1)
		Decipher Script		+1
		Forgery			+1
		Knowledge (Arcana)	+1	5			+6
		Search			+1
		Spellcraft		+1	10	+2 synergy	+13

		Heal			0
		Listen			0            +3 familiar
		Sense Motive		0
		Spot			0
		Survival		0

		Bluff			+4
		Diplomacy		+4
		Disguise		+4
		Gather Information	+4
		Intimidate		+4
		Perform			(+4)

		Speak Language			2/2

		*tot points spent = 44

Familiar:	             Bat

Spells:		0th	6/day				DC 14
		1st	6+1/day				DC 15
		2nd	6+1/day				DC 16
		3rd	5+1/day				DC 17
		4th	3+1/day				DC 18

Known:		0th	Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Light,
			Mage Hand, Message, Read Magic, Prestidigitation
		1st	Charm Person, Color Spray, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Shield
		2nd	Glitterdust, Invisibility, Web
		3rd	Dispel Magic, Lightning Bolt
		4th	Polymorph

Languages:	Common, Draconic, Undercommon

Only one feat is left, either Sculpt Spell (for Color Spray, Lightning Bolt, Glitterdust, Web and Dispel Magic) or Heighten Spell (for Color Spray, Charm Person, Glitterdust, Web and Lightning Bolt) or Greater Spell Penetration.

Equipment is still left vague because starting value may not be standard, however I will try to get most of the following:

WAIS - Belt of Dwarvenkind (darkvision, +2 Con, +2 various ST, Cha-skills +/-) [14.900gp]
FIN1 - Ring of feather falling [2.200gp]
FIN2 - Ring of counterspell [4.000gp], currently holding Magic Missile
SHOU - Cloak of charisma +4 [16.000] OR +2 [4.000]
HAND - Gloves of dexterity +4 [16.000] OR +2 [4.000]
TORS - Vest of escape [5.200]
NECK - Amulet of NA +1 [2.000gp] OR Golembane Scarab [2.500gp]
HEAD - Hat of disguise [1.800]
Light Crossbow, Masterwork (335gp)
30-Bolts Carrier (3gp)
Quarterstaff, Masterwork (300gp)
Dagger (2gp)

Finally, it is turning out that we might all have to be Drow, in which case I will have to adjust many things, among which:

Abilities - I may not want Cha 20 (too cheesy!), so I may save 4 points to go keep Con 14 despite the penalty; Dex and Int will increase by 2, therefore I will still have the same skill points
Feats - the last feat will be gone
Proficiencies - will change, but I will keep the same weapons
Languages - since Undercommon is automatic, I'll spare 2 skill point for something else
Equipment - I won't need Belt of Dwarvenkind anymore, this will free a lot of money but lose a RP link I had in mind

It is also unclear whether the DM is allowing any PrCl. For the Sorcerer is always a boost in power and versatility if the PrCl has full spellcasting advancement. However I have found only a couple of PrCl that I may choose: the Elemental Savant (T&B) and the Shadow Adept (FRCS) which both has a nice touch but not too extravagant. I am not sure if I want to take either, because they would require to change spells and feats to qualify... after all this work to build the character! However, they would provide more flavor, RP opportunities and of course power What do you think?

 

[Li Shenron]

LATEST HEADLINES - LIVE NEWS:

- we are all going to be Drow
- everything is going to be 3.0 except feats

Which means that my Sorcerer is simply going to be a Sorceress.

edit: ah, and yes of course this means that half of my work so far is screwed up

 

[Thanee]

*ROFL*

Well then you will probably have to think about those spells again, as 3.0 has some huge differences to 3.5 there.

Polymorph Other + Dispel Magic + Silent Spell + Still Spell is nice to have by 10th level.

Shield is obviously highly beneficial, as is Haste (which is more like insanely powerful ).

Bye
Thanee