Help me choose new Sorcerer spells (3.0)

[Malin Genie]

If you're not going with scry, then I'd suggest either solid fog or wall of ice (or dimension door for 4th level and wall of force at 5th level.)

Area control is one of the most useful things a sorceror can do on a battlefield; and catching the enemies (or some proportion of them) in a defined area makes your prty's area effect spells more useful, too (if you have a cleric in the party and are both feeling particularly cheesy the 'wall/solid fog + horizontal blade barrier' trick was a nasty loophole in the 3.0 rules...)

 

[Li Shenron]

Aargh! So many good suggestion that it is actually becoming MORE complicated for me to choose!!!

I have Tome & Blood but didn't actually check it for False Life and other spells. I was also considering Endurance, since it would give me +11/+22 hp (up to +33 if empowered) and +1/+2 (+3) to Fortitude saves, for half a day. Is False Life much better?

Definitely not more damage-dealing spells however, I think Lightning Bolt alone is enough for the moment with Empower Spell and Sculpt Spell. For electricity-resistant monsters I'll use Magic Missile.

Also I'm not convinced about Suggestion. It seems good indeed, but I already have Charm Person and both seems to be... redundant. Clearly, they do different things, but while Suggestion compels 1 action only with a Will save, Charm Person allows for many "suggestions" if the save is failed; you're probably more limited in what you can ask (but how much?) and you need Cha checks all the time, but as a Sor I have good hopes with Cha checks and in any case a failed Cha check doesn't end the spell. Do I really need both spells?

 

[Li Shenron]

My sorceress (also 11th ) has it and just used it to Command a ghost in CotSK for 11 days!

CotSK?

Do you have Heighten Spell already? If not, get it! With some of your spells (Charm Person, Glitterdust, etc.) it's really good!

Heighten was in my plans, but I don't have enough feats for everthing yet, not even with the Incantatrix bonus metamagic feats! Perhaps next time, but also Chain Spell and Energy Substitution were on my mind...

 

[Thanee]

In 3.0 Endurance is very good, indeed, but False Life stacks with an enhancement bonus to Con, which is an advantage, however, the biggest advantage is, that you can cast it over and over again, once the extra hit points are gone.

CotSK = City of the Spider Queen

Suggestion is much, much, much more powerful than Charm Person. Sometimes it is even better than Dominate Person (also works on non-humanoids, only one "command" though, but that's often enough).

The biggest advantage is, that it can be cast in combat without any hindrance, such as the threaten stuff with the Charm spells.

The biggest downside is language dependancy.

With Sculpt Spell, Lightning Bolt is probably good enough for damage dealing, yeah.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nail]

Dimension Door must be your 4th level choice.

How's my suggestion spell doing?

At your level, you're going to want to be able to escape if needed, and move about the battlefield at will. Moreover, you can quickly move the fighters about the battle with you. I don't know how many times our Sor 11 has grabbed the Ftr and Rog and moved them to a better spot!

 

[Plane Sailing]

In 3.0 Endurance is very good, indeed, but False Life stacks with an enhancement bonus to Con, which is an advantage, however, the biggest advantage is, that you can cast it over and over again, once the extra hit points are gone.

As Thanee says, plus when Endurance goes down (duration expires, dispelled) all of your current damage is applied against your current hit points, which could result in instant disablement or death. false life, on the other hand, grants "temporary hitpoints" rather than raises your current hit points. Any damage sustained to your temp hit points goes away when the temp hit points go away.

At your level you would get 1d10+10 temp hit points. Playing with 3.0 rules you can empower this insanely, especially if as an incantatrix you get to empower spells as only a +1 level modifier. You could cast a 5th level triple empowered false life and get (11-20)*2.5 = 27 to 50 temporary hit points. Nice.

Cheers

 

[Malin Genie]

At your level you would get 1d10+10 temp hit points. Playing with 3.0 rules you can empower this insanely, especially if as an incantatrix you get to empower spells as only a +1 level modifier. You could cast a 5th level triple empowered false life and get (11-20)*2.5 = 27 to 50 temporary hit points.

Hang on - even in 3.0 shouldn't that be (1d10 x2.5) +10? Personally I don't see great value in false life and similar spells, unless you have no cleric in the party or no access to healing potions. You shouldn't, as a sorceror, be taking significant hit point damage in the first place. Also, your vampiric touch spell gives you temporary hp which I don't think stack with false life hp.

Suggestion is as already mentioned, much more versatile than charm person. It can be used in combat, and it can compel people to do things that not even your best friend would do for you (unlike charm), and it can affect non-humanoids.

Analysing it in terms of the roles a high-level sorceror or wizard can fill

Artillery: Lightning bolt (and Feats) and glitterdust - covered

Battlefield Control: Web has value, but I'd still consider a wall spell of some kind

Detection/location: glitterdust is good against invisible enemies, as well as having offensive value. True seeing is an obvious choice for later. Locate object can be surprisingly useful, and might be one to think about.

Reconnaissance: prying eyes - covered (although I'd consider picking up scry or greater scry at some later point, personally)

Transport: Really lacking. If you have a party cleric who can cast wind walk then teleport isn't quite as necessary for getting from place to place overland, but you don't want the party to be still walking/riding across the countryside at this level.

Stealth/Protection: invisibility - covered

Defeating/Protecting From Magic: lesser globe and dispel magic - nicely covered

Getting Past Obstacles: I suppose you could lightning bolt them? Jumping the group past (dimension door) is one option. Levitate and shatter were two of my earlier suggestions to provide for this role. Disintegrate both for attacking power and the ability to remove walls of force and physical barriers, might be one to consider for later.

Communications: Lacking, although if you have another party member with sending, that's often enough to keep the party in touch.

Personally, with a sorceror I'm always looking for versatile spells, given the limited number of spells. I want to be able to contribute in the maximum number of situations (combat and non-combat).

 

[EvilGM]

2nd lvl
Shatter is a handy spell (+ dispel magic = works on magic items)
Mirror Image can be a lifesaver

3rd lvl
Suggestion, Fly and Haste are all strong choices
Major Image is not cheesy, versatile and fun

4th lvl
Dimension Door for sure

5th lvl
Wall of Force is possibly the best spell ever!

 

[hong]

Fly and dim door. Fly and dim door. Fly and dim door.


Hong "you control the horizontal. You control the vertical" Ooi

 

[Plane Sailing]

Hang on - even in 3.0 shouldn't that be (1d10 x2.5) +10? Personally I don't see great value in false life and similar spells, unless you have no cleric in the party or no access to healing potions.

Nope, the +level is part of the stuff that gets multiplied. Check up numerous explanatory threads about empowering CLW etc.

For a higher level Sorcerer False Life is better than having access to a cleric or healing potions most of the time. It is effectively like having pre-emptive healing.

Plus it means that 60 points damage that would have killed you outright (too late for healing!) still leaves you standing... and you can give yourself another false life to keep you going until you *can* get your actual damage healed.

All party members take damage, the casters nearly as much as everyone else - area effect damage, ambushes, missile attacks, unwanted hand to hand engagements. Happens all the time (after all, casters get specially targetted, no?). Plus it is a party-friendly policy since you are less likely to be using up healing potions or clerical power, saving it for your friends

For wizards it isn't so good (except as a wand of course), but for sorcerers who have more spell casting than they know what to do with by 10th level... it is a stupendous spell.



Thinking about the spell list again, I'd suggest See Invisibility as another great 2nd level spell which you are missing. Better than true seeing for three reasons
a) range out to limit of vision, not just 120ft (medium ranged in 3.0, still better than true seeing)
b) duration of 10min/level not 1min/level (it will last for one dungeon, not one encounter. More likely that it will already be up when you need it too)
c) no costly material component (250gp per casting is often forgotten by those extolling its virtues!)

Evards Black Tentacles is a great area control spell, and in the 3.0 edition is fantastic for small casters (or 'reduced' casters) since the tentacles don't attack them and they can stand in their midst. A bit of pain to adjudicate though.

Of course, in 3.0 there is the Wall of Force cheese effect of using a sphere/hemisphere to trap an opponent smaller than 1ft/caster level with no save and no spell resistance! Rather beats out Force Cage

Cheers