Help me convince my players that the Cleric is cool

[ARandomGod]

Well that's a bit rough. One wants to play a Wizard, and the other is hard-set on a rogue.

Anyways, with all the feedback provided here, I have decided to make my sales pitch with all the info provided in the thread, and then let them play whatever they want.

It IS a very undead intensive campaign, and if they don't take the clue, then so be it.

I'm not pulling any punches for their lack of foresight.

Of course, I do also approve of the not having any clerics too. I mean, just let 'em waltz in. TPK, let 'em make new characters. Same adventure! To be different, fill out any previously cleared area's with wights and ghouls.

 

[kolikeos]

(i only read the title)
clerics are powerful, clerics are a necessety to every adventurig group, clerics are fun to role play... but clerics are in absolutly no way cool.

 

[Umbra]

That's entirely up to your DM.
...You can't really bring it in as a pro or con of cleric ship because it's entirely in the realm of DM fiat.

Which is why I prefaced my answer to a DM that it depends on the campaign.

Of course, you are right that any class could have these contacts but if the DM wants a cleric to be chosen this is one aspect that can highlighted for the cleric - and then the DM needs to run the world that way

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Anyways, with all the feedback provided here, I have decided to make my sales pitch with all the info provided in the thread, and then let them play whatever they want.

It IS a very undead intensive campaign, and if they don't take the clue, then so be it.

I'm not pulling any punches for their lack of foresight.

So you're just going to ignore the class choices they make and mow them down until one of them picks the class you want to DM for? :\

 

[ARandomGod]

So you're just going to ignore the class choices they make and mow them down until one of them picks the class you want to DM for? :\

Do I think he'll:

Ignore their choices? No. They can choose whatever they want.

Mow them down? Not any harder than before. He was just concerned that he'd have to tone down the adventure if there wasn't a cleric. Now he still thinks it's too much, but has decided not to adjust for them. Seems fair enough, as non of them made the suggested adjustments for him. Hell, warning them before hand was a courtesy.

Until one of them picks the class...? Naw, he'll not town down the adventure after they pick a class suited to adventure there either.

...you want to DM for? Heh. He'll DM for any and every class. Whether they're not really effective against those enemies or they are. Sure, they may die, but not allowing death is not good GMing. He's got an adventure, he's hinted to them what they need. The GM is not responsible if a group of humans go into the underdark with no light source. Or if they jump down an unscalable cliff using feather falll, but don't have a way back up.

Well, sorry guys... that's what was down there. If you had ropes and tethered one at the top I'd let you escape. If you come up with a good plan I'll let you get away. If you all keep rolling 20's, you'll win anyway.

DAMN! Let me see those dice!! O_O
(OOps, that was from my last adventure. More natural 20's in a row than I've ever seen before.)

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I feel their pain... I'm playing a Druid in my campaign and my other players are starting to get it through their skulls that I am not the party medic. I've made it clear to every one of them that if they want me to be the medic that they need to pool resources to buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds that I will be happy to use for them but I am NOT going to memorize nothing but Cure Light Wounds. Perhaps if you tell the Cleric player that you will ensure that he/she won't be using all of their daily spells for healing due to finding a wand or being given one then they might be more open to playing a Cleric. Eventually they can take the Craft Wand feat and make the Wand themselves and thus forever be freed from having to waste personal spells but at low levels I do agree that it seems every spell from a Cleric is a healing spell.

 

[ForceUser]

I feel their pain... I'm playing a Druid in my campaign and my other players are starting to get it through their skulls that I am not the party medic. I've made it clear to every one of them that if they want me to be the medic that they need to pool resources to buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds that I will be happy to use for them but I am NOT going to memorize nothing but Cure Light Wounds. Perhaps if you tell the Cleric player that you will ensure that he/she won't be using all of their daily spells for healing due to finding a wand or being given one then they might be more open to playing a Cleric. Eventually they can take the Craft Wand feat and make the Wand themselves and thus forever be freed from having to waste personal spells but at low levels I do agree that it seems every spell from a Cleric is a healing spell.

heheh....I was you two years ago when the campaign started. I played a druid, only healer in the group. But I didn't want to be the party medic, so I made an orc druid. Baked into his orcish sentimentality was the idea that nothing could be gained without pain, and just for story flavor I made it so that when he cured you, it hurt. It felt as though your blood was on fire when he laid his hand upon you, and when the dazzling pain cleared, you were healed. And instead of goodberry, he had goodGRUB. You should have seen the looks on their faces whenever I handed one of them a juicy wriggling grub and said "eat." You wanted a heal? No problem! What, nobody wants a heal? Suit yourselves.

A few levels passed, and what do you know - half the party took a level or two of cleric and the bard took a cure spell. Nobody ever asked Yrgach for another heal. And when he offered: "No, it's okay, I have a wand."

 

[Trainz]

Do I think he'll: Ignore their choices? No. They can choose whatever they want. [snip excellent reply]

Exactly. You've got my drift bullseye.

Now get out of my head.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Do I think he'll:

Ignore their choices? No. They can choose whatever they want. ...but [he] has decided not to adjust for them.

I suppose that this attitude bothers me so much because I've always considered "adjusting for them" to be the core of the DM's job. He's not writing an interactive novel, whose plot is set regardless of what the players choose to play. He's crafting a campaign that is fun and balanced for the PCs that are created.

I'd expect the DM's thought to go something like this: "Whoa, nobody's decided to play a cleric. Hrm. If I add a few wands of CLW into the treasure and switch the main henchmen from undead to goblins, things should roll along fine."

Instead, we've got: "Whoa, nobody's decided to play a cleric. Well, screw 'em! I want to use undead, and that's what I'm using. They can just die a lot until they realize they need a cleric. It was a courtesy to tell them they needed a cleric in the first place."

Feh.

 

[Arnwyn]

So you're just going to ignore the class choices they make and mow them down until one of them picks the class you want to DM for? :\

Maybe - and that's perfectly fine if he informed them about what the campaign/game world is like beforehand.

He's crafting a campaign that is fun and balanced for the PCs that are created.

Of course - as long as the PCs make appropriate adventuring decisions based on their chosen characters. The ball's in the players' court.

I'd expect the DM's thought to go something like this: "Whoa, nobody's decided to play a cleric. Hrm. If I add a few wands of CLW into the treasure and switch the main henchmen from undead to goblins, things should roll along fine."

I, personally, would never do that. Of course, my players would never have their PCs going anywhere near undead or areas known to have undead if they created a party without a cleric. So, no worries on my part.