D&D 5E Help Me Design This Class

[Guest 6801328]

General Concept: Support caster, fluffed as something to do with spirits, with a wild/savage/uncivilized flavor.

Inspirations/Archetypes: Witch-Doctor, Shaman, Medicine Man, Fairy Tale Witch, Voodoo Priest
(Note: I'm using those terms in the popular culture sense, not in their meaning, if any, from previous editions.)

Desired Features:
- Themes: curses, charm, charms (i.e. things you carry), potions, poisons, luck (good and bad)
- Few or none "nuking" spells or cantrips
- Light or no armor, simple weapons, no shields
- Maybe support healer, although perhaps with an out-of-combat focus, and specializing in curing conditions as opposed to healing HP.
- Main spell categories: necromancy, divination, transformation
- I could see a main attack being a necrotic life-drain. Perhaps a new cantrip?


A lot of this can be modeled in various ways using existing classes. As a general rules I think that common archetypes should be achievable without multiclassing, although of course we all will have different opinions about what "common" means.

My main argument for not using an existing base class is the avoidance of nuking and direct healing spells. There's no precedent for reducing available spells. So that means it would have to be a sub-class of a non-casting class, which would make combat abilities too strong. I don't think the argument "well just don't use those spells" flies, because that's gimping the build. The sacrifice of the most effective damage and healing should be compensated for with something else.

Thoughts?

 

[LapBandit]

Couldn't this be built with Land Druid X/Warlock 2? The rest is fluff.

 

[mellored]

Sounds like a 4e shaman. Or the shepard druid.


Core feature: You summon an animal spirit, which gave buffs/debuffs in a zone around it, or just utility like a scouting hawk, depending on the animal spirit you summon. You gain a few as you level, but can gain more as you find animals (get a unicorn horn to summon a unicorn spirit). Similar to a wizard finding spells, and loosing it.

Secondary feature(s): 1/2 caster. Just grab fitting spells like hex, ensnaring strike, bestow curse, animate dead, and polymorph. As well as a few cantrips.

Third: Potions/Curses/Charms. Ritual-esque abilities that has specific qualifications, like getting a bit of someone's hair, a drop of blood, having it brew in a kettle for a month, etc.... Hard to accomplish, but semi-permanent effects, like putting someone to sleep for 100 years, unable to give birth, or permanent good/bad luck (advantage/disavantage).

Sub-class:
Battle Spirit: Your spirit is stronger (gains an OA).
Buff Spirit: You can summon 2 spirits at once.
Caster: Regains spell slots.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Couldn't this be built with Land Druid X/Warlock 2? The rest is fluff.

Sure, then you've got access to shapeshifting, healing spells, and damage spells. Which I'm trying to avoid. Again, you can simply not take them, but now you've lost some of the power of the class without compensation.

To make a comparison, I have been wanting to play a Cleric that's more like a WoW priest, wielding a staff and no armor. I could multiclass into Monk to do so, but I'd be doing so in order to avoid using features I already have (mace, medium armor, shield) with no actual benefit. I'd be paying a level cost to fulfill a character concept, but not actually getting any mechanical benefit for doing so. And, sure, if the roleplaying is important to me I'd do so. But I'd rather not have to.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Sure, then you've got access to shapeshifting, healing spells, and damage spells. Which I'm trying to avoid. Again, you can simply not take them, but now you've lost some of the power of the class without compensation.

Talk you your DM.
There are several classes that could do what you're after, from Artificer Wizard to Lore Bard. If you believe that you'd be entitled to some extra power in compensation for taking the spell selection you want rather than one you think might be more powerful, run it by your DM.

To make a comparison, I have been wanting to play a Cleric that's more like a WoW priest, wielding a staff and no armor. I could multiclass into Monk to do so, but I'd be doing so in order to avoid using features I already have (mace, medium armor, shield) with no actual benefit. I'd be paying a level cost to fulfill a character concept, but not actually getting any mechanical benefit for doing so. And, sure, if the roleplaying is important to me I'd do so. But I'd rather not have to.

Might be worth looking at Favoured Soul Sorceror UA then.

 

[Tony Vargas]

My main argument for not using an existing base class is the avoidance of nuking and direct healing spells. There's no precedent for reducing available spells. So that means it would have to be a sub-class of a non-casting class, which would make combat abilities too strong.

Barbarian would seem the obvious candidate. What if it had to 'channel' all it's Rage to access it's spellcasting each day?
Nah. Just a thought.

I don't think the argument "well just don't use those spells" flies, because that's gimping the build.

It's a fair argument for a class that has a limited set of known spells, but since Druid would be the obvious spellcaster base, and it's neo-Vancian, so yeah, that doesn't fly.

So in part, the need is just to create a new spell list. But, that barely justifies a class (though it makes defining and differentiating one a lot easier, as spells are a well-developed part of the game), most of the casters have at least slightly different casting mechanisms or some significant special abilities, as well...

Thoughts?

This is an idea I used for a 'sorcerer' (in the sense of bargaining with spirits for magical power) way back in early 2e:
Instead of gaining known spells, the chaster enters into relationships with familiar spirits. Each spirit can be invoked by spending a slot, of course, the level of the slot determines which of several spells the spirit can provide manifests. Maintaining a familiar spirit imposes some sort of minor taboo, invoking it requires some sort of price or action before it can be invoked again - some might happen in the course of adventuring, being wounded or facing an enemy or whatever, others might require you to go out of your way.

Spirits mostly pull from the class list, but the DM could make the occasional spirit with something different or unique to offer available. There could be a number of spirits detailed in the class write-up, or they could be left to the player & DM to come up with. Or they could be an abstract mechanic - gaining a new spirit just means linking d3+1 spells of levels you can currently cast, for instance.

The class either wouldn't get cantrips, or it's cantrips would be all about interacting with the spirit world, and wouldn't do anything too overt - except maybe vs the odd incorporeal monster that's close enough to being a spirit.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

It sounds to me like you want a class where it's magic is not as obvious and short lived as those of the current classes. Currently in the game spells are very flashy and typically have short term effects in order to emphasize their role in combat. Fireball is obviously instantaneous, but things like buffs and summons rarely last longer than a day. Contrast with how magic works in Middle Earth where Saruman is a powerful wizard, but his power is in the ability to manipulate and corrupt living creatures over a long period of time.

So in our brand new class we will cut down on spellcasting as we now it and need some feature to compensate for it. I'm thinking a system similar to the warlock's invocations where they choose options from a list. But these options will be subtler such as inflicting a series of conditions of increasing severity when hitting with cantrips or weapon attacks (lower speed to restrain to paralysis) or an aura that allows allies within it to heal when they drop a foe to 0hp. It will probably start with being able to prepare one of these effects a day (lasts until next long rest) and as you level up you can have more of them active and gain access to more powerful effects.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Talk you your DM.
There are several classes that could do what you're after, from Artificer Wizard to Lore Bard. If you believe that you'd be entitled to some extra power in compensation for taking the spell selection you want rather than one you think might be more powerful, run it by your DM.

Might be worth looking at Favoured Soul Sorceror UA then.

Right. Except that I'm not trying to design my next character I'm trying to design a class.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

When you get down to the actual things witch doctors, fairy tale witches, ect. do, it is 1) publically curse someone, and after making them sweat for a while, 2) make the curse happen in a way that inspires everyone to remember that the victim was in fact cursed--in another words, there is a lot of theater even for true magic users. That says bard to me. I would say a bard subclass that let's you use inspiration to "shake" someone, maybe over time would be a good fit.

 

[Guest 6801328]

It sounds to me like you want a class where it's magic is not as obvious and short lived as those of the current classes. Currently in the game spells are very flashy and typically have short term effects in order to emphasize their role in combat. Fireball is obviously instantaneous, but things like buffs and summons rarely last longer than a day. Contrast with how magic works in Middle Earth where Saruman is a powerful wizard, but his power is in the ability to manipulate and corrupt living creatures over a long period of time.

So in our brand new class we will cut down on spellcasting as we now it and need some feature to compensate for it. I'm thinking a system similar to the warlock's invocations where they choose options from a list. But these options will be subtler such as inflicting a series of conditions of increasing severity when hitting with cantrips or weapon attacks (lower speed to restrain to paralysis) or an aura that allows allies within it to heal when they drop a foe to 0hp. It will probably start with being able to prepare one of these effects a day (lasts until next long rest) and as you level up you can have more of them active and gain access to more powerful effects.

And "preparing one of these effects" could be, as Tony suggests, something about communing with or attuning to a particular spirit. I like it.