help me lead my party somewhere other than a shallow grave!

[the_mighty_agrippa]

i need tactics help!!!

i am playing in a highly modified version of the rtttoee module.

to date, we have lost 3 characters, had another 2 die once and get brought back, had one of those two die and get brought back again and had a number of less than zero instances.

our main problem is that the characters seem to scatter in combat and try to fight their own battles, a la mechwarrior.

here's what i have to work with...

• 
  paladin 7
  cleric 6 (cohort)
  cleric 5, inquisitioner 2
  wizard 5, incantatrix 1 (cohort)
  sorceror 7
  rogue 3, fighter 4
  fighter 6, wizard 1
  monk 7

we're at the stage where bad decisions get people killed. last battle, the wizard cohort was the standout hero, surpassed only by the paladin dropping an ogre mage with one shot.

golf clap

all the metamagic and item creation feats are under the mystran cleric (clc 7) and the wizard cohort. as bad as combat is, non-combat has 2 lg characters calling all the shots.

i had considered partnering the monk and rogue together, the idea being a fast moving sneak attack duo. the cleric cohort could bump, then move with his paladin mentor. the mystran cleric and his cohort could provide as-needed support. the archer could suppress spellcasters with the sorceror laying down arcane firepower where necessary.

the problem is dependence on favorite spells and an unwillingness to get hit. the result is that everyone scatters, leaving a core group to fight mano y mano while the others snipe from the sides.

halp!

 

[Goobermunch]

You're pretty caster heavy, which can be a problem (and a benefit).

If the problem is that the group tends to fragment, consider developing tactics around fragmentation.

Fighter, Cleric, Sorceror as a unit.

Paladin, Cleric, Wizard as a unit.

Use these two groups to control the edges of the battlefield. Force your enemies between the two flanks.

Where possible, your flanking groups should use walls to decrease the number of enemies that can attack them. Put the arcane casters closest to the walls. Let the Fighters tank and the clerics do back up (they can always take 5 back and cast, if need be).

Your monk and rogue will make an excellent mobile "problem-solver." The two of them should be able to quickly dispatch dangerous opponents. However, since they're kind of fragile, you'll need to work on survivability. High tumble skills are important in this respect. So is healing (see below).

Another useful thing about this set of tactics is that it allows your arcane casters to use fireballs (with some risk). Since both your monk and rogue should have evasion and at least a +5 reflex save (with a nice bonus from dex), the wizard can drop a fireball into the middle of a combat with a decent chance of not hurting either the rogue or the monk. I don't recommend making a habit of this, but it is viable in an emergency.

Without knowing who's in greatest need of protecting, I can't really address the problems with people not wanting to get hit. However, I can make some suggestions that will increase your Monk/Rogue duo's survivability. Get ring gates (2 sets). Make each cleric responsible for one of the "floaters." They can cure through the ring gates. Note that this also means that your monk and rogue can now deliver healing magic for your clerics (if your DM agrees . . . I think it's reasonable, some might not . . . ). Here's how it works: Round 1 Cleric casts healing spell. Round 2 Rogue moves into position. Cleric delivers healing spell. It's really simple (you might need to ready an action at some point, depends on how picky your DM is).

Also, if need be, your arcane casters can cast through the ring gates . . . this can be especially effective as a surprise attack from a stealthy rogue.

This is only going to work if your group is interested in team tactics. If they're not, then the party is doomed to die painfully.

Good Luck,

--G

 

[MarauderX]

Not sure how you are awarding XP, but in one campaign the DM gave out XP for battles in exactly what he thought you contributed to an enemies defeat. I didn't stay with it long since I was a wizard that only got to 2nd level while the fighter-types were half way to 4th, but I would recommend not rewarding individual efforts so much.

Otherwise, use tactics on them to get them to learn. Have an underpowered group of critters that hate wizards attack no one else but the party casters and see what the fighters and clerics do to defend them. Or have fewer monsters so that the group gets used to focusing on a smaller group than themselves and get to use flanking and such to their advantage whenever they can. You may have another death on your hands, but they gotta think more like a team and one way to do that is use good tactics on them with less firepower so it doesn't look like you are pulling your punches.

Goobermunch has some great stuff for the specific party too.

 

[Goobermunch]

Oh. I forgot to mention this part too!

Play a few "danger room" type excercises, just for practice. Let the party see how these tactics will work before they have to commit.

If you're not the DM, grab the DMG and the MM and throw together a few groups of monsters so the party can test the tactics. Discuss afterwards what worked well and what didn't.

--G

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

well, i'm one of the players. i play the mystran cleric and his sun elven wizard cohort (they get along for the sake of the children).

i wanted a devoted defender, but after no one wanted to play a wizard...

goobermunch, thanks for some great ideas! my only concern is that if i could get them to exercise discipline and team actions at all, i wouldn't need the suggestions in the first place.

 

[Dr. NRG]

RTTTOEE is well known as a meat grinder. Expect to die often and not necessarily well, and that's with good tactics. Without them, expect to die constantly and messily.

What I'm driving at here is that group tactics are only one of the causes for the heavy fatality ratio.

NRG

 

[Goobermunch]

well, i'm one of the players. i play the mystran cleric and his sun elven wizard cohort (they get along for the sake of the children).

i wanted a devoted defender, but after no one wanted to play a wizard...

goobermunch, thanks for some great ideas! my only concern is that if i could get them to exercise discipline and team actions at all, i wouldn't need the suggestions in the first place.

That's why you're going to have to get them together to practice. It's going to take some extra work on your part, but if you can show them that group tactics are infinitely more successful than solo tactics, they may be inclined to start showing some discipline.

First you'll need to prove that there's a benefit.

--G

 

[Sir Whiskers]

I strongly second Goobermunch's danger room idea. If the other players and the DM are willing, stage two or three encounters in different settings. On one side are the players (possibly minus you). On the other side are the exact same characters, run by you and the GM. Work out the tactics you want your group to use, then show the players those tactics in action. You can go so far as to work up a few "scripts", similar to what the new MM will have, with typical actions for the first several rounds. Even if your group picks up on only one or two ideas, that will help.

The advantage of doing this as a danger room, rather than in the "real" campaign, is that people can experiment without worrying about the consequences. You can also set up contrived situations to highlight the usefulness of certain tactics (the spellcasters have used most of their spells for the day, the party is ambushed, the party is ambushing others, the party is outnumbered, the party is facing a high-level spellcaster, etc). The important thing is to show how to properly handle these challenges, as people tend to imitate what works.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

i know rtttoee is a lesson in continued 3e/3.5e character creation. worse, the dm has highly modified the module, assigning class levels to certain baddies and running sevreal concurrent plotlines on top of the module.

in the group, we have a number of people that holler up a storm when a battle leaves us thrown about the field. there are the usual calls for a more comprehensive battle plan but nothing ever comes of it (which is why i suspect two of us brought in cohorts).

i'll try a group test session but we have precious little gaming time as it is.