Help me make AC better!

[AE020704]

Okay, on another thread I posted an offhand idea about AC. Then I thought, "Hey, I like that!"
Basically, it goes like this: AC is based on a number of factors, as you all (should!) know. Any attack that hits above your Touch AC but below your Full AC goes CLANG on your armour, and you take no damage. However, to take into account the fact that an impact on your armour is going to jarr you quite a bit, I propose that anything that hits your armour does damage, but is subject to DR based on your armour's AC.

As an example, a PC is wearing mundane Full Plate (AC +8) and has a Touch AC of 13 and a Full AC of 19. An attack roll of 12 or less misses. An attack roll of over 19 is a normal, full damage hit. However, an attack roll between 13 and 19 hits the armour, doing damage subject to DR based on the armour's AC.

Now for the options: Apply the damage with DR of AC ½ (Full Plate would be DR 4/-).
Apply the damage with DR of AC (Full Plate would be DR 8/-).
Leave it alone!
Or something else...

 

[Li Shenron]

I've never seen something like this before, so my comment may be off.

In this case, first notice that you're making AC worse

...because normally a roll of 13-18 would do NO damage, while in your case it does some reduced damage.

That said, if you go this route then you have to keep DR high, so that the balance is not thrown off too much.

I'd say that DR = armor bonus (incl. enhancement bonus if magic) is ok but still quite small, especially at high levels when monster damage is huge. Maybe doubling?

 

[Nifft]

The variants I've seen are:

- Armor as DR
-- 1.1: Your armor does NOT add to your AC, it acts as DR. "Clang" is a hit.
-- 1.2: Half the damage absorbed by the armor hits you anyway, but as non-lethal.
-- 1.3: Armor has HP, and takes damage ("absorbs" rather than "negates"), and you must pay to fix it up.
-- 1.4: Class-based "defense" bonus (like SW d20); does not stack with Armor AC bonus.

Cheers, -- N

 

[AE020704]

-- 1.2: Half the damage absorbed by the armor hits you anyway, but as non-lethal.

Hmm...I like that. It certainly is more apt, considering that what I want to convey is the fact that a PC would be jarred by the impact on his armour.

Cheers, Nifft!

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

Li Shenron's point that you're reducing the effectiveness of AC by allowing what previously did no damage to have a chance of doing some damage is important - so I'd agree that to reduce balance issues keeping the DR high - or making the damage that is taken non-lethal would be sensible. By making it non-lethal you could feasibly batter someone out of a fight without doing them any 'real' damage. This would appear to match reality somewhat.

Another factor to complicate things - shields. I'd rule that shields stack with everything else toward your touch AC for this - afterall you're deflecting the attack away with your shield - it's not going clang. OK sometimes it would go clang on your arm, but other times it would deflect and I'd be tempted to rule that these are always counted as misses rather than clangs in order to up the power of shields a bit more - make them a bit more of what they really were - VERY useful.

 

[AE020704]

I'd rule that shields stack with everything else toward your touch AC for this - afterall you're deflecting the attack away with your shield - it's not going clang.

Yes, I'd purposefully not included shields in my initial thoughts for that very reason. Adding the shield bonus to touch AC causes some problems with touch-attack spell effects, but I actually rather like the idea of 'taking' the impact of a spell on your shield. Nice and heroic

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

Working this through as I go so might go wrong - bear with me

Adding a fourth type of hit

Attack that miss the touch AC - miss
Attack that beats the touch AC but not the shield AC - deflection
Attack that beats the shield AC but not the full AC - clang
Attack that beats the full AC - hit

Deflection - a 1st level of partial damage - non-lethal and affected by the 'strength' of the shield.

Clang - a 2nd level of partial damage - non-lethal or partially lethal (possibly a bit of both) affected by the 'strength' of the armour.

I think that's getting too complicated though - as everyone will constantly be checking various 'types' of AC to see what the effects of any given attack are. THe simplicity of the hit and miss is attractive.

So if shield adds to the 'touch' AC it can be used to deflect touch attacks which until now they didn't. I'd agree that with some ranged touch attacks they should fall into 'deflectable' attacks and therefore be affected by someone with a shield. But actual touch attacks that are more like identifying where the magic takes place wouldn't benefit from having a shield. Yes this complicates factors but if you're shooting for something closer to 'realism' than the standard D&D set-up it might be worth it

 

[AE020704]

Yes, I'd considered something along these lines at one point but, as you can see, it gets frightfully complex, and serves only to bog things down. I'm tempted to keep Shield AC as a bonus to Touch AC, for the sake of simplicity.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Iron Heroes uses Class Defense Bonus and Armor as DR (shields add to AC, not DR.)

The thing I like about IH's DR is that it's variable - basically, take the AC rating of the armor and turn it into an equivalant die. For example, Plate Mail (AC +8) stops 1d8 damage, averaging to DR 4.5. So an average strength man with a dagger might do some damage, and the plate mail will occasionally stop all the damage from a longsword swung by the same guy.

It also lets the defender get to do something other than just write down how many hitpoints he lost

Under this rule, magical bonuses to armor add directly to DR, so +2 plate stops 1d8+2 points.

As noted, this still won't be alot against big monsters and power-attackers. Maybe make the damage received in the range of >= Touch and < Full AC be halved before applying this DR.

Having Shield add to Touch AC means spellcaster touch attacks, trips, grapples, ect will be harder to accomplish. But then, that may not be a bad thing

 

[Deekin]

If i went with variable DR in DnD, I would double the dice used for Iron heros. Right now it makes armor half as effective.