Help me make WotC adventures better.

[nedjer]

I will poke my contact at WotC again about the module conversion. I will also note that it *would* be nice to have Rodney drop back in at some point in time.

He deserves a holiday as much as anyone else

And the thread's only started to stack up. Decent plots, rich characters, original backdrops, formula free, rewarding good play/ roleplaying, varied combat, opportunities for open-ended play so far - but there's more . . .

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

3. I will say this on the repetitive creatures theme: I can completely understand the complaint, but at the same time it's more PLAUSIBLE, to me, to have a single threat instead of a menagerie of threats. the Menagerie is more fun, but makes no sense. Remember the old complaint, that the beholder was two rooms down from the platoon of orcs, who were both across the corridor from the 90-foot dragon in the 10' x 10' room? Too many monster types with shared goals tends to stretch plausibility for me. I think WotC's design of same creatures with different roles (kobold skirmishers, kobold archers, kobold solders, etc.) works pretty well to vary this up.

I think you're right, as long as there is a good variety of monsters. However, there is another issue:

Combat time.

It's one thing to have three rapid encounters with a variety of kobolds...but if each battle is taking 60-90 minutes, I don't want to spend the majority of two 3 hour sessions fighting kobolds.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Combat time.

It's one thing to have three rapid encounters with a variety of kobolds...but if each battle is taking 60-90 minutes, I don't want to spend the majority of two 3 hour sessions fighting kobolds.

Like Merric's thread points out, long combats fudge with the pacing of each session. That's less key for an adventure that goes over multiple sessions (though I'd certainly appreciate it if they paid some attention to session pacing).

 

[Lanefan]

Like Merric's thread points out, long combats fudge with the pacing of each session. That's less key for an adventure that goes over multiple sessions (though I'd certainly appreciate it if they paid some attention to session pacing).

I'd have to say that would be utterly impossible, as every group plays at a different pace and for a different amount of time each session.

An adventure that group A might blast through in 2/3 of a session might take group B 2 sessions and group C 6 sessions. Personally, other than intentional one-offs and minor side-treks I can't remember the last time I ran an adventure all the way through in one session. (admittedly, 4e might be different in this respect; I wouldn't know)

I'd say just lay the adventure out and let groups play through it at their own speed instead of even trying to set a pace.

Lanefan

 

[Jack99]

Seriously, though, a nod from someone at WotC would be nice. I sent a PM a few days ago and have got no response about the module conversions.....Can we post conversions of earlier edition modules to 4e?

RC

While I might not be WotC, maybe I can help. Last year, I started a conversion of Red Hand of Doom, here on this site, in the blog section. Several posters started claiming that I might be breaking the rules of the GSL, and I would bring down law-suits and other bad things(tm) on ENworld. This was around the time where a few sites were being closed by C&D-letters sent by WotC.

Curious if I had completely misunderstood the GSL, I sent Scott Rouse a PM, asking if such conversions were okay, and he said "don't worry, go ahead" or something along those lines. Now, I never finished the conversion, I grew bored with it, but it should still be there, so that you can see what Scott thought was okay.

Although my argument probably wouldn't hold in court, I have faith in Scott's call, and wouldn't worry if I ever chose to make another conversion.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

Like Merric's thread points out, long combats fudge with the pacing of each session. That's less key for an adventure that goes over multiple sessions (though I'd certainly appreciate it if they paid some attention to session pacing).

Merric's thread actually gave me an epiphany over what has been bugging me the last six months playing 4e.

We're going to try doing mini-less combat now.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Merric's thread actually gave me an epiphany over what has been bugging me the last six months playing 4e.

We're going to try doing mini-less combat now.

I've been revolving around that drain for a while, but it means something when the official ENWorld Optimist comes out and says "Guys, um..." I'd like to think I'm fair, and Merric is downright charitable from what I've seen.

I don't feel comfortable going minis-less for 4e combat, just because that would be throwing out a huge chunk of the system. I figure if I'm doing that, I might as well use a whole different game's combat system, since push, pull, slide, slow, and shift are so integral to 4e's "damage + status" system. Controllers and leaders, especially, even many defenders, would all need brand new ways of thinking about their abilities.

But that may be an extreme reaction. Either way, I think focusing WotC adventures on a few big, risky, dangerous, epic combats, and peppering in plenty of non-combat XP, would address a lot of the issues mentioned in this thread. It would vary challenges, it would include more RP, it would reduce same-ness of combats, it would mean that combats are each significant, it would create more dynamic NPC's...all of that flows almost directly from thinking about only a few big combats per adventure.

And if we're lucky, we might get some "noncombat powers" for the PC's to use.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

I don't feel comfortable going minis-less for 4e combat, just because that would be throwing out a huge chunk of the system. I figure if I'm doing that, I might as well use a whole different game's combat system, since push, pull, slide, slow, and shift are so integral to 4e's "damage + status" system. Controllers and leaders, especially, even many defenders, would all need brand new ways of thinking about their abilities.

The problem is that glancing at the War of the Burning Sky, which I'm very tempted to run, would still take a long time to do, just because there still are lots of encounters. The problem is that even if you have just 'important' encounters, the time spent on those will still dominate the time spent on other things. Though at least there would BE other things in published adventures.

I'm not so sure that the push/slide/slow etc is as critical as you think it is, and can fairly easily be dovetailed into a more narrative combat.

 

[Truename]

The problem is that glancing at the War of the Burning Sky, which I'm very tempted to run, would still take a long time to do, just because there still are lots of encounters. The problem is that even if you have just 'important' encounters, the time spent on those will still dominate the time spent on other things. Though at least there would BE other things in published adventures.

I'm just now wrapping up WotBS #1 with my group. I cut some of the dross (Scenes 2-6-1, 4-2, and 4-3, if you're curious), but it will end up taking eight 3-hour sessions, which will get us to level 4. During that time, we'll have had 7 fights. I cut two and they bypassed the remaining four through their choices and roleplaying. It depends on your players and how you present things, but WotBS is very friendly to non-combat solutions.

My players like combat, so I try to include one fight in every session, which leaves us plenty of time for roleplay and the like. I'm still getting a feel for the best way to pace things, but so far it's working very well for us, with some sessions being combat-heavy and some being RP-heavy.

 

[BruntFCA]

I think part of the problem is the de-emphasis on puzzles and traps.

Tomb of Horrors was very popular, and it was *full* of traps and puzzles.

DMs don't know how to work the Passive Perception thing either. The best idea I've seen is that you get a -2 for every 5 foot or whatever you're away from the trap. So there's no lame auto-finding...

Or you can make it that as they get closer in a charge they realize there's a tripwire just ahead! Continue with charge or bail out?

If you read the stuff on Rituals, some of them are well thought out, but they are just ignored in the Modules. I make it that you *need* all sorts of rituals to finish a campaign...just go ahead and read some, you will get amazing ideas for puzzles and modules.

I even created a character called the "Ritualist"...he's kinda a Shaman that lives in the woods that the PCs go and see when their strapped for rituals.