Help me nail down this 'take 10, take 20' nonsense

[Scion]

Meaning your average 1st-level human sailor has to drop 4 ranks into climb, and burn all two of his feats on Athletic and Skill Focus (climb), just so that won't fall out of the rigging once a week?

Let's hope he doesn't ever have to tie a knot... or swim.

or walk up and down those planks to load things onto the ship, or navigate, or be able to plan a mutiny

 

[Aesmael]

Well, he certainly doesn't need to be level ten to have a +10 on his check. Level+3 ranks. Skill focus is not unreasonable if he's up in the rigging everyday. That's a 4th level sailor right there, without any bonus from high strength. And I think those things were made easy to climb. DC 10? Taking ten anyone with at least average strength could make it if there was no urgency. A first level weakling with a strength of 3 could make it up the ropes every time if they put the ranks into it. Provided there were no special circumstances.

Meh. More of a tangent.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also, there arent any 0 level commoners like in 2nd ed and good riddance!

Hey, I'm playing a zero-level commoner!

Well, multiclassed. Ftr6/Com0.

-Hyp.

 

[Tatsukun]

Now, if a character says - "I am going to go slowly, and check every foot/hand hold before placing my weight on it", then I can simply add a modifier to the roll (just like a circumstance bonus). This can even be a +19 circumstance bonus. But there is still a CHANCE (represented by a 1 on the die) that the character, despite taking all precautions, sadly overlooked something and fell/slipped/whatever.

I live in Japan, so I have to take my shoes off pretty regularly. I thus have to tie them something like five times a day. So, by your system, I should fail to tie my shoes (break the shoelace, tie my finger into the knot, tie them to each other, whatever) about once every four days?

Also, I don't even see your point with the above example. You can't take 20 on a climb rope check. What are you going to do, climb it twenty times until you get to the top? Well, you could, but there might be a problem with all those falls (unless it's a climbing gym with safety ropes and a padded floor maybe).

What else do you apply this odd "you must roll and a 1 is a fail" rule to? If a PC says he wants to walk downstairs from his room to the inn's kitchen does he get lost 5% of the time? Does he fall down the stairs 5% of the time? Does he accidentally open an inter-dimensional rift 5% of the time?

-Tatsu

 

[knifespeaks]

LOL! I besieged on all sides!

It's not that bigger deal - despite you all throwing ridiculous scenarios at me about tying shoes and walking stairs, I don't see anywhere 'in the rules' about taking 10 to walk stairs! So please, keep it focused on what we are talking about at least!

The point which I am making, and which seems you don't like is simply that nothing should ever be certain. As far as as a d20 = 5% increments, thats a DESIGN failing on behalf of the creators, imo. Much better to at least use d% to give more specific opportunities. Nevertheless, they don't call it d20 for nothing

And again, spare me the 'rules' arguments - when you agree with a house rule, they are 'guidelines', aren't they?

I prefer a different style of game to you - that's all.

 

[Scion]

Hey, I'm playing a zero-level commoner!

Well, multiclassed. Ftr6/Com0.

-Hyp.

In the same fashion are you a Ftr6/Com0/Ari0/Barb0/Cleric0/Bard0/crazyguywithrazors0?

If so, have fun gaining no exp There is a big difference between 'zero' and 'none', just ask those guys with stats of - . (I would've put a ! there, but the factorial of a dash just isnt pretty)

 

[Hypersmurf]

And again, spare me the 'rules' arguments...

But... this is the Rules forum!

It's... it's what we do!

crazyguywithrazors0

Ah, that'd be Mike Mearls' Razorfiend?

Cool

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

LOL! I besieged on all sides!

It's not that bigger deal - despite you all throwing ridiculous scenarios at me about tying shoes and walking stairs, I don't see anywhere 'in the rules' about taking 10 to walk stairs! So please, keep it focused on what we are talking about at least!

It's a balance check for standing on a surface that's between 7-12 inches wide, and you need to get a 10. Most DM's just say "yeah, you walk down the stairs, whatever", but apparently anything could happen, so in your game you have to roll, right?

The point which I am making, and which seems you don't like is simply that nothing should ever be certain. As far as as a d20 = 5% increments, thats a DESIGN failing on behalf of the creators, imo. Much better to at least use d% to give more specific opportunities. Nevertheless, they don't call it d20 for nothing

But they fixed that, far better than a percentile system ever could (since with a percentile system you end up with a 1% chance of utter failure, assuming you have a "nothing should be certain" rule, and that's STILL far too high), by introducing take 10, wherein people only fail if they're rushed or threatened.

We're trying to see the rationale of removing that rule. We're showing situations where it is definately far, far worse, and you're failing to show situations where it is better.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Telling poor Hyp to spare a rules argument is like feeding Superman kryptonite...save the Smurf!

 

[knifespeaks]

A balance check for standing on a stair 7-12 inches wide? I assume therefore when you guys are being attacked on a stair you roll too, as you are under pressure?

Come on, you are being utterly ridiculous. I don't need to convince you of anything, nor you me - I agree to disagree with the mechanic of take 20. I can accept you don't agree with me