Help me realize this character (have concept, will travel)

[ScottB]

Hi everyone! This is my first post on the forum, so I apologies in advance should I inadvertently trod over a rule or few. Please help me to learn, as I have searched high and low for a good D&D forum online, and I'm hoping this might be it.

To business: I am working on a character mostly as an intellectual exercise, because the seed idea just won't leave me alone. May I draw your attention to the half-golem templates in the back of Monster Manual II (page 209)? When I found this, I was immediately drawn to it as an interesting seed for a character. You would have a socially-shunned, stupid hulking brute, with massive AR and DR, but with relatively low hp (due to level adjustment) and the disappointing reality of being immune to healing magic. Concurrent with this find was my discovery in the Mounts section of the Arms and Equipment guide of some discussion of especially wry goblins using ogres as mounts: manipulating the ogres into thinking that the goblin's ideas are its own (page 91).

Putting these two concepts together, I decided that I needed to buddy up with someone in my role playing group to make a mount/rider duo, one of us as a dwarven tinkerer-type or mage character, the other as a large-size half-golem of the riders construction (or possibly not). The rider could use offensive spells, sling or musket from the shoulders of the 'mount' character while the mount served as fighter-archetype. We could even work with the DM for some improvised ride-by attack feats. I really cannot get enough of this idea.

My first question to you is this: I have the template, but the AEG suggests that the ridden creature be at least two size categories larger than the rider. The half-golem is CR +3 (I don't know the level adjustment that would equate to), and I would like to minimize any further level penalties from a large-size creature. So, does anyone know of a rather 'inexpensive' (in terms of level adjustment) large-size base creature appropriate for character play (int 3+)? I have lightly scoured both MM's available to me, but with no luck.

Second: I am vacillating between clay- and iron- golem types. Could I get a second opinion on this?

Thanks for you help and opinions, and I'm looking forward to being a member of this forum.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Try having a permanencied Enlarge Person cast on a medium-sized character.

 

[ScottB]

Try having a permanencied Enlarge Person cast on a medium-sized character.

Thanks for the idea! I really liked it until I remembered that the character I am trying to build, being a half-golem, will be immune to magical affects just as a golem would be. I love your plan, but in this case it just won't work.

Do you have any other thoughts on getting the character to large size? Also, I have been thinking of working the clay golem in with that new Sandstorm book - any suggestions on that? Can you or anyone tell me where/how to find out the level adjustment, given only CR?

Thanks again.

 

[GakToid]

The half-ogre from Races of Destiny is large and has a LA +2 with no racial hit dice. That's the lowest character adjustment (total +2) that I'm aware of for a large character.

The goliath from Races of Stone isn't large, but has the Powerful Build ability. This makes the character seem large for certain circumstance. The goliath has a LA +1 with no racial hit dice.

Alternatively, the feat Jotunbrud from Races of Faerun provides a benefit nearly identical to the Powerful Build ability and is available to any Damaran or Illuskan human.

-Gak Toid

 

[Sekket]

Bah, low ECL? Screw that, live a little!

Be a StoneChild! +8 Strength, +8 Con, Poison and acid immunity (and more!) for only +4 LA!

Also in Races of Stone

 

[Rystil Arden]

Bah, low ECL? Screw that, live a little!

Be a StoneChild! +8 Strength, +8 Con, Poison and acid immunity (and more!) for only +4 LA!

Also in Races of Stone

If he follows your advice, then after the Half-Golem template, that will leave his character with so much LA that he will simply keel over and die after each hit and fail all of his saves.

 

[Arkhandus]

Half-ogres are the lowest ECL you'll get for a Large creature, for some reason. I think they're in Savage Species as well, though it's more 3.0 than 3.5, so I dunno if Races of Destiny changed the half-ogre. Hrmm. The 3.0 half-ogre in Savage Species has only a +1 Level Adjustment. They might be a bit strong for that, but not by much. Races of Destiny might've pumped them up though in stats for all I know.

There is no CR to LA/ECL calculation, as Challenge Rating measures different things than Level Adjustment. A creature's total hit dice plus Level Adjustment is always at least equal to its Challenge Rating, though, because LA is a measure of both combat power (like with CR) and also character playability and usefulness as a PC.

You're considering a clay or iron half-golem? Do you intend for the character to have failed their Will saves against the process, or no? If they failed the Will saves, they'll be Neutral Evil and have Construct traits (including their Constitution score becoming null), but if they succeeded on the Will saves, they will instead retain their original alignment and creature type and gain +4 Constitution. Failing the saves is actually better in terms of power (all those Construct immunities and no-Con immunities), but of course results in a less playable character, generally.

I'd suggest the clay half-golem, as the Level Adjustment for it would be less than that of an iron half-golem. For the moment, I'll assume your half-golem managed to retain his mind during the process, and is still humanoid or whatever in type. The clay half-golem's ability score adjustments are worth a +1 Level Adjustment by themselves. Their natural armor and damage reduction of 10/silver are worth another +1 LA, after the balancing factors of their inability to run, loss of any original natural armor, and clay golem magic vulnerabilities (well, the one or two effects that weaken them anyway). I'm making rough estimations here, but they should be fairly accurate when taken together. The Fortitude bonus and clay golem special qualities would be worth another +1 LA at least, then combined with the clay golem's Magic Immunity and wounding attack, probably another +1 LA or so.

Overall a clay half-golem should have probably a +4 or +5 Level Adjustment. If using the Savage Species stats for a half-ogre, this should be fair, having no racial hit dice but a +5 or +6 total Level Adjustment and the capacity to progress in class levels as normal for a PC (the half-golem's loss of original natural armor makes the half-ogre definitely fine at +1 LA, if using the Savage Species half-ogre). Probably best if you start at ECL 10 or so, thus having 4 or 5 class levels / hit dice to go with your big Level Adjustment. If the DM's fair, he might go with the total LA of +5 for a half-ogre clay half-golem, considering that you'll be immune to healing magic, won't be repairable (if you lack the Construct type; but at least you could heal naturally if you lack the Construct type), and will have so few hit dice. But a total +6 LA could still be fair, or +7 LA if using the Races of Destiny half-ogre.

 

[ScottB]

If he follows your advice, then after the Half-Golem template, that will leave his character with so much LA that he will simply keel over and die after each hit and fail all of his saves.

I could pull it off... I'd just be the enormous, 10th (adjusted) level bruiser with 30 str and 2HD, who hid (poorly) behind the parties much tougher mages. A giant half-stone, half-clay monsterosity who couldn't intimidate even a particularly skiddish gobbo. A tank easily KO'd by a stiff wind.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Frankly, I agree that +5-+7 LA is fair, but that's not what it would get if Wizards slapped an LA on it. They tend to be highly conservative with LA-to-power, so if you want to match it up with other core creatures, you'd need to give it LA +8, like a Vampire. I think the designers sorely underestimate the amount that LA screws over the player, and that's why I would say that +5-+7 is fair for the half-golem/half-ogre. Of course, I would also say that +5-+7 was fair for vampire.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I could pull it off... I'd just be the enormous, 10th (adjusted) level bruiser with 30 str and 2HD, who hid (poorly) behind the parties much tougher mages. A giant half-stone, half-clay monsterosity who couldn't intimidate even a particularly skiddish gobbo. A tank easily KO'd by a stiff wind.

LOL